Posts by barry

57

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW

by jwfacts in

a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?

" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.

doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.

barry

As a third generation Adventist I would like to some perspective into SDAism.

Within SDAism broardly speaking there a two groups the first being the traditional Adventistis. This group is cultic with there doctrins as they hold to older interpretations that came from the great dissapointement such as the 1844 investigative doctrine as well as other cultic doctrins. The reason I mention the 1844 doctrine is because of the heracy of perfectionism. Traditional Adventists beleive they will acheive absolute perfection before the second comming. So to a Traditional Adventist being saved is presumption because they would say only with absolute perfection they could claim such a state. This is the group that oposed Questions on doctrine since the 50s. This group also beleive that christ had a sinful human nature and that beleif also contributes to there perfectionism. Websites against SDAism are targeting the beleifs of this group.

The second group is what I would call the evangelicals and are supported by the scholars of the church. This group rejects the 1844 perfectionistic interpretations of the former group and accepts the protestant beleif od righteousness by faith.. This group is accepting of other christians as the body of christ.

So for anyone out there wanting to find a church home I could only reccommend an Adventist church that primarily is guided by people of the second group. The other alternative is to look for a group that does teach the protestant gospel. As Ive said Ive always been an Adventist but in may younger days I used to go with my friends to the Baptist church and went to school scripture lessons with the Anglicans and Prespetarians which I found OK to. I find it strange that people here sometimes favour non denominational groups. Some of these groups may be cultic also and sometimes they are groups that have broken away because of there fanaticism.

Buy cultic I mean a system of beleif that departs from traditioal christianity. I realise cult could also mean a high control group.

57

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW

by jwfacts in

a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?

" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.

doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.

barry

Gday Mulan the SDAs have allways celebrated holidays from the 18oos one leader Ellen White reccomends placing a xmas tree inside the church over the holiday time. SDAs are strict about not drinking 99% would be t totalers.

57

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW

by jwfacts in

a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?

" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.

doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.

barry

jgnat,

A pastor does have to follow the churches teachings because the church pays his wages and retirement fund. When Barnhouse and Martin studied Adventist doctrine in the 50s they presented the Adventist theologins with a suitcase full of conflicting statements all with the church logo on them and they threatened to label the SDA a cult because of the diversity. The SDA theologins said they would clean things up and were supprised at there findings

A church member has no restrictions on how he may interpret the bible.

Both church members and ministers dont get disfellowshiped. They did dissfellowship before the year 2000 but didnt shun even then.

The SDA church does have reccomendations concerning diet which is followed by less than half of church membership.

When my father visited us for xmas the other week we had turkey for xmas dinner. My dad is mostly a vegetatian we arent vegetarian at all.

For me SDAism is another denomination no better or worse than another

20

Hello all.....................

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

.............it's been ages.

i thought i'ld drop in and see who was still around from the old school and how many newbies are here.

good to see people are still leaving the wts.

barry

Gday Bliss im still here good to see you again.

57

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW

by jwfacts in

a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?

" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.

doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.

barry

SDAs dont shun and dont dissfellowship or excommunicate. The most a local church can do is ask you to leave if you were to dissrupt there services.

I think the SDAs do ntry to cover things up about there early history.

I think you are right the JWs may be one of the worst.

57

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW

by jwfacts in

a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?

" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.

doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.

barry

Gday Aussie warm here too but the dams are now nearly 50% so we might be able to water our lawns soon.

Gday Junction -Guy, The SDAs do all the things a JW shouldnt, they would all just now be taking down there christmas trees, They encourage college and even have there own colleges for higher education. They celebrate birthdays participate in sports and salute the flag. Some dont vote or join the military while others do join the military and vote.

5marme

57

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW

by jwfacts in

a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?

" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.

doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.

barry

Barnhouse and Martin wrote a book called the kingdom of the cults. Barnhouse and Martin in the 1950s met with many theologins during this time and spent hundreds of hours studying SDA material to determine the truth obout doctrines of the SDA church.

As a result of all of this the SDA church wrote a book called 'Questions on Doctrine' following a format of a question by evangelicals and an answer as to what the Adventist position is. At the same time Barnhouse and Martin wrote a book called the truth about Seventh day Adventists. Both books were sold in Adventist book stores and evangelical book stores. The result of all of this study is Barnhouse and Martin put out a statement saying SDAs are are truly christians forming part of the body of Christ and orthodox on central doctrins and they are herodox on some lesser doctrins.

There is a large sector of the SDA church that beleive Questions on Doctrine is heracy that have a large following in the church led by a theologin in America Pastor Andreson and in Australia a lay preacher called Bob Brinsmead led the awakening movement.These people all still remained church members but fought what they beleived the church was apostate. These people and there beleifs still exist in the church today and are what ?I would say are in some ways cultic.

In one SDA church we did have some JW studies become members of the SDA church and the reason they did become members is because they beleived after visiting other churches in the area they felt more comfortable at our bible study than anywhere else because they felt they could speak very freely and there opinions wouldnt be offensive to anyone there.

This openess is a two way sword because when Barnhouse and Martin studied SDAisn they found both trinitarian doctrin and Arian doctrine both with the church logo on it comming out of the churches publishing houses . The official SDA teaching is the trinity doctrine. Barry

16

19th century century Prophets could our Mormon friends comment

by barry in

ive just been listening on utube to learn about joseph smith and im wondering how our mormon friends view joseph.

qcmbr, susanhere and others.. i saw on th emovie how joseph had a vison of moroni and joseph was supprised moroni was white and said he was a jew.

jews happen to have dark skin like greeks or lebonese people they are semetic while the american indians are of the mongolian race.two different races altogether.. i also saw on the movie how joseph translated the plates by putting them in a hat with the two stones and waiting for the light to come so he could translate to the writer.

barry

I have a few more questions about th ebook of mormon.

Why is it there is no Archeological evidence for the book of mormon including no coins being found that were mentioned in the BOM, none of the 38 cities in the BOM have ever been found and not even one artifact been found?

The top Archeologist of BYU confirms this.

On the other hand we have coins used in bible times we have the cities mentioned in the bible being found and excavated .

The information I have also indicates various statements have been expounged in Joseph Smiths books. On the other hand the scholars of the bible are allways ready to find evaluate any small evidence found out about the bible even small fragements of texts.

There is also a book called the book of Abrahame that was translated by Joseph Smith even though he had no knowledge of the language. Scholars later found the manuscript to be nothing like Joseph Smith had written in his book.

16

19th century century Prophets could our Mormon friends comment

by barry in

ive just been listening on utube to learn about joseph smith and im wondering how our mormon friends view joseph.

qcmbr, susanhere and others.. i saw on th emovie how joseph had a vison of moroni and joseph was supprised moroni was white and said he was a jew.

jews happen to have dark skin like greeks or lebonese people they are semetic while the american indians are of the mongolian race.two different races altogether.. i also saw on the movie how joseph translated the plates by putting them in a hat with the two stones and waiting for the light to come so he could translate to the writer.

barry

Gday Qcmbr,

Hope you and youre family have a very merry xmas and thanks for the reply so soon.

The reason I brought up the issue on the white skin of Moroni is because Joseph Smith asked Moroni why he had white skin to which Moroni replyed that originally all the native peoples of north America had white skin but it was made red by God because they rebelled.

I would still like an answer to how can the American Indians be the offspring of the Jewish people when they are of different races one mongolian the other semetic?

I dont dought Joseph Smith was a smart bloke but there are many smart people around.

No I dont beleive SDA nonsense or bull about the SDA Prophet Ellen White and dont beleive her words should be used to interpret scripture as some SDAs use her writings. I beleive the only way someone claiming spiritual gifts should be tested in subjection the scripture or else we end up in a mental loop with no way of finding truth.

Barry

16

19th century century Prophets could our Mormon friends comment

by barry in

ive just been listening on utube to learn about joseph smith and im wondering how our mormon friends view joseph.

qcmbr, susanhere and others.. i saw on th emovie how joseph had a vison of moroni and joseph was supprised moroni was white and said he was a jew.

jews happen to have dark skin like greeks or lebonese people they are semetic while the american indians are of the mongolian race.two different races altogether.. i also saw on the movie how joseph translated the plates by putting them in a hat with the two stones and waiting for the light to come so he could translate to the writer.

barry

Ive just been listening on utube to learn about Joseph Smith and Im wondering how our Mormon friends view Joseph. Qcmbr, Susanhere and others.

I saw on th emovie how Joseph had a vison of Moroni and Joseph was supprised Moroni was white and said he was a Jew. Jews happen to have dark skin like Greeks or lebonese people they are semetic while the American Indians are of the mongolian race.Two different races altogether.

I also saw on the movie how Joseph translated the plates by putting them in a hat with the two stones and waiting for the light to come so he could translate to the writer.

When the writer hid the orininal transcript God got very angry with Joseph and said he would not allow him to translate from Lehi anymore and future translations would be from Levi. How convenient both books were the same account just happen to be written slightly different wording.

I would like to know if you Mormons accually beleive this bull... and if as a church their are many dissenters?

Im an SDA [Seventh day Adventist ]and we have a Prophet Ellen White who has also some baggage such as plagerising materal from other writers including Joseph and contradicting the bible by supporting the early Adventists with their erronious doctrine of the investigative judgement and the events surrounding 1844. The doctrine flys in the face of the protestant gospel of righteousness by faith and so many Adventists teach just the same as the roman church on Justification. .

Ellen White beleive the black races were an amalgamation of humans breeding with animals.

Ellen White was no where as colourful as Joseph she spent most of her time telling other people where they were wrong and said it was from god and telling them not to play cricket and ride bicycles.