I beleive the penticostals are growing at a greater rate than any denomination in fact I read in a church paper that SDAs in many parts of the world also go to penticostal meetings. As the paper said they go to the SDAs for the truth and to the penticostal services for the experiance. Barry
Posts by barry
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13JW- Mormons- Seven-day adventist The more they preach- fewer come in
by sspo inkeeping members a challenge for lds church .
mormon myth: the belief that the church is the fastest-growing faith in the world doesn't hold up .
by peggy fletcher stack .
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What is the big deal about 1914 anyway?
by grey matters inwhat is the big deal with the wts about 1914 anyway?
it wasn't their date to begin with.
they got it from the millerites/second advendtists.
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barry
Gday Heathen, The It was the Millerites who got th edate of 1844 and they expected christ to come to earth to take the church home to heaven. The SDAs then reinterpreted the date of 1844 to be the pre advent judgement. The date is caculated from the verse in daniel 8.14. 2300 days at the same start date of daniel 9 and useing the day year principle brings it to 1844.There is no doctrine of the invisible presence in fact the SDAs see the second coming as visivble when every eye will see him. Also the purpose of the second coming is to take the faithfull to heaven. Therfore the second coming is still in the future.
The doctrine of the investigative judgement is now a contraversial doctrine with more traditional Adventists still beleiving it while scholars and the younger generation and those who are clear on the gospel oppose it.
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16
What is the big deal about 1914 anyway?
by grey matters inwhat is the big deal with the wts about 1914 anyway?
it wasn't their date to begin with.
they got it from the millerites/second advendtists.
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barry
!914 for the Jehovahs Witnesses is just the same as 1844 for the Adventists and the denial of such doctrines would produce an identity crisis with many.
More than any doctrine these dates identify these religions in history.
From my own experiance the SDAs have held to 1844 even though they have been proven wrong time and time again. The scholars in the SDAs no longer beleive it. The SDAs went from being Arian to trinitarian with little drama but are still struggleing with 1844.
From the SDA experiance the JWs will never easily discard 1914.
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Artificial Insemination
by noontide inim a long time lurker, first time poster.
my question is this; if a sister in the congregation decided she wanted to have a baby, but was not married and went to a fertility clinic and was artificially inseminated, could she be disfellowshiped?
she didnt have sex, so she did not commit fornication.
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barry
I had a sperm count to see if I am fertile. The count was 110,000,000 per ml. The average is only 20,000,000 per ml.
Actually after that reading Im a little bit carefull when I sit next to a women [besides my wife]. They might jump.
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1380
The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible
by thirdwitness inthink about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
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barry
Here is another artical on the day year rule by an Adventist. I wonder if 3rd witness might like to comment? http://www.spectrummagazine.org/onlinecommunity/sabbathschool/060821davis.html
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1380
The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible
by thirdwitness inthink about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
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barry
Danny Im the SDA authority here but Im going to let you off this time. Des Ford is a great scholar and well known among SDAs.
Des has two doctorates in theology he is a fine christian.
I remember once Des said Its just as important for a christian to think as it is for him to pray. And also truth is rarely found in times of religious fervour.
My Mum went to college with Des -
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barry
This is what happened to a telemarketer who took me on about 6 months ago.
Barry, Can I help you ?
Telemarketer, Are you the owner of the buisness
Barry ,yes
Telemarketer, There will be a reduction of fees for youre phone service.
Now I know what this call is about and someone from overseas is on the line
Barry, Please you know Im the manager of the buisness here please may I talk to the manager there is he in? I will only deal with youre manager
Telemarketer, He isnt here zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I here nothing from the other end
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1380
The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible
by thirdwitness inthink about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
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barry
Im just reading Matthew 24 and I find some things I would like 3W to explain.The question by the diciples is ' What will be the sign of youre coming and th end of the age? The answer by our lord being the gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come.' The other answer to this question being 'the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light the stars will fall from heaven and the heavenly bodies will be shaken' then we have in verse 30 'At that time the sign of the son of man will appear in the sky.'
Please note there will be wars and rumors of wars, but such things must happen but the end is still to come, there will be famines and earthquakes in various places , all these are the beginning of birth pains,
Note these passages dont point to a war 1914 as being the sign of christs coming or to earthquakes. Is the JW interpretation flawed in the understanding of this chapter? I also read in this chapter I anyone tells you he is out in the desert or here he is inth einner room , do not beleive it.
I also read that this generation will not pass till all these things are fulfilled. The meaning of this being as I understand that if the gospel had gone to the world at that time Christ would have come then. Thus how important would have been Daniel 4 in those circumstances.?
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1380
The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible
by thirdwitness inthink about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
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barry
Thirdwitness, how would you interpret this passage?
1 Thessalonians v13 on
Brothers ,we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We beleive that Jesus died and rose again and so we beleive that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the lords own word , we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the comming of the lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.For the Lord himself will come down from heaven,with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that , we who are still alive and are left will be cought up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we willl be with the Lord forever.Therefore encourage each other with these words.
Is this the event that occured in 1914?
Note the passage says the people who have died in christ will be cought up together with those who are alive on the earth.
How does this fit with 1914 and JW theology? -
1380
The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible
by thirdwitness inthink about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
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barry
Thanks for youre postings Third witness you may be supprised to know I agree with you on the word shabuwa the word means a seven but that can be a seven of anything. It could mean a seven of days weeks months or a seven of marbles.As I mentioned before it is the context which decides what it is a seven of. As I also mentioned before it is the context which is important to explain this chapter it is not the use of the day year principle in fact most scholars dont use the day year rule in this chapter but still get the result of 490 years by looking at the context.
Consider the following. Daniel in chapter 9v2 is praying to the lord in fasting and in sackcloth and ashes and thinking about the 70 years of desolation of Jerusalem by the end of Daniels prayer the angel Gabriel is sent to Daniel. The Angel says in our lingo 'Look Daniel 70 years might sound a lot but there will be seven times that long for things to be settled. As I said before other churches beleive this prophecy is for 490 years but they dont use the day =year to do it.
The Adventist church uses the rule to interpret 1844 and the 1260 days as years some use it with Daniel 9 but most commentries interpret 490 years here without application of that rule. 1844 is also a big issue among Adventists it may be an important date to Adventists but you wont find it in the bible. The same can be said for 1914.