bob1999

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Posts by bob1999

• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

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  bob1999

  Come on man, we're up to 6 and doing the best we can. :-)

  Peace
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  The Quiet One,

  I think your link is the standard argument against, mine the standard argument for.

  It's interesting that you would say "....proven directly from scripture...."

  I looked up how Agnostic is defined...

  a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god , and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. If knowledge is limited to [personal] experience then nothing can be proven directly from scripture. Something that is, I believe related, when looking at the bible and trying to understand it I don't bring a lot of " made sense to me" or "judge reasoning based on...... its own merit." along. I, instead, look more for "does it make bible sense".

  As a believer I want to know what the bible says, not what makes sense to my very limited human mind.

  I believe in the full sovereignty of God. This is his sandbox. His rules, not mine.

  Peace
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  "The Jews and their High Priest didn't teach it. Jesus and the Apostles didn't teach it. Didn't become orthodoxy until 325 C.E."

  "Though the Bible taught truth of the Triunity of God implicitly in both Old and New Testaments, the development and delineation of this doctrine was brought about by the rise of heretical groups or teachers who either denied the deity of Christ or that of the Holy Spirit. This caused the early church to formally crystallize the doctrine of the Triunity. Actually, Tertullian in 215 A.D. was the first one to state this doctrine using the term, Trinity."

  That would be 110 years before what you claim.

  Jesus said that he and the Father are one.

  Look at Revelation 1:8 the Alpha and the Omega is Jehovah

  Look at Revelation 22:13 the Alpha and the Omega is the First and the Last

  Look at Revelation 1:17-18 the First and the Last is the living one who died and is alive for evermore.

  When did the Father die?

  Please understand that no one has said that Jesus and the Father are the same person but they are both God (Jehovah).

  Peace
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  "What denouncement, what orthodoxy."

  If you were a JW today holding the beliefs of Charles Taze Russell you would be disfellowshipped in a heart beat.

  Russell taught till the day he died that Christ's second presents started in 1874.

  Rutherford continued to teach that until at least 1929 and it wasn't official until 1943 after he died.

  Russell taught until sometime about 1906 that 1914 would be the END of armegeddon.

  Russell was strictly opposed to organizations, celebrated Christmas and held that whose who do not believe in the particulars of what he was teaching, but believed in God and Christ, should be treated as Christian Brothers.

  I could go on and on.

  Peace
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  "....what are your thoughts on what I went on to say?"

  The doctrine of the Trinity is part of orthodoxy. There are people with much better understand than me.

  They can and do make the case for the Triune God much better than I.

  I gave a link to one that I thought was good and easy to understand. Here it is again.

  http://bible.org/article/trinity-triunity-god

  If you disagree with that one I don't know what else I can do or say.

  Thank you for the civil exchange.

  Peace (Philippians 4:7)
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  Just a side note.......

  The WTS has denounced their founder as well but unfortunately have not returned to orthodoxy.

  Peace
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  leavingwt

  Yeah, Jim Jones and David Koresh had followers too. :-(

  Peace
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  "bob1999....I have copied an excerpt from the site you recommend above...."

  You have mis-understood me.

  I did not recommend that site. A different article from that site was quoted by 'The Quiet One'.

  I pointed out that that site is tied in with people that still believe in the false treachings of Herbert W. Armstrong and should NOT be taken seriously.

  The portion that you have quoted are the writings of Herbert W. Armstrong, a crazy person who is now dead and has been denounced by his own church, the church that he started.

  Peace
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  "Where do they call Jesus a false prophet?"

  You have mis-understood me.

  The Worldwide Church of God, now known as Grace Communion International,

  has turned from the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong and as far as I know consider him (H.W.A.) a false prophet.

  The article that you are quoting from was written by Herbert W. Armstrong.

  That artical is found on the same web site that you recommended "Thanks for the replies. I think that this page is relevant to the discussion.. http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/3562/Personification.htm"

  as being relevant. The article you recommended, Personification From Forerunner Commentary, is from the website BibleTools.org

  A web site run by Church of the Great God, Inc.

  The article by Herbert W. Armstrong is on the Church of the Great God website.

  All I was trying to do is show that nothing relevant (IMO) can come from a web site that clings to the treachings of a false prophet (H.W.A.)

  Peace
• 
  163

  The Trinity

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.

  what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?

  i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  bob1999

  "Thanks for the replies. I think that this page is relevant to the discussion.. http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/3562/Personification.htm"

  So go to that site.

  Click on "About"

  "This site is owned and operated by the Church of the Great God, Inc. " click on that.

  Click on "Was Jesus Dead?"

  by Herbert W. Armstrong?????

  His own chruch, that he founded, has rejected him as a false prophet and returned to orthodoxy.

  You really should check your sources more carefully.

  Peace