myelaine

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Posts by myelaine

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  25

  Is the story of the Garden of Eden simply a Rabbinical puzzle of SQUARING the circle??

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

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  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  matthew 1:1...that doesn't say that Jehovah tempted Jesus. it says satan tempted Jesus.

  matthew 1:8...that doesn't say that Jehovah delivered all the nations into satans hand...it says that satan believes he is in control of the nations. Of course, God says the He Himself lifts up kingdoms and brings them down...at His will.

  you said: " Had Jehovah NOT delivered to Satan the Kingdoms and the glory the premise of the temptation would have been null. "...again, God does not tempt with evil. satan tempted Jesus with the easy way to get worship. Jesus rebuffed the offer in order to do the will of the Father the hardest way.

  you said: " A distinction without a difference, I'm afraid " ...but there is a difference. you alledge that it was God who created the conflict about knowledge by putting a restriction on what adam could learn thereby causing him to go against his "nature". I said that it wasn't God who created the conflict about knowledge. God's warning was about death. satan manipulated God's warning about death and made it about God with-holding knowledge. as I said in my previous post: satan "made" the conflict about knowledge (where the original prohabition from God was about death.

  "in the day that you eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will surely die" the text certainly eludes to the fact that a day for God is not what we would call a day. As it says in genesis 1:9-13 the earth was seeded and brought forth all vegetaion on one day. that doesn't happen in one of our days. with this in mind, why do you insist that God is lying because He said in that day. that day could have been a mighty long time.

  you said:" I don't understand your objections, to be frank. What are you on about? "...my objections are these: you are deliberately mis-representing what the text says in order to try and make it conform to your "bias" toward God. (you have said: He's incompetent, lying, murdering, spiteful and dim witted) you are misleading people with your mis-information and biased accusations and THAT is what I am on about...I don't want to see JWN people mislead...I think they've had enough of that with the WTBTS...

  ...and then on another thread you say: "I have nothing against God"...does this suggest that you might be confused?

  love michelle
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  25

  Is the story of the Garden of Eden simply a Rabbinical puzzle of SQUARING the circle??

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  you said: "Jehovahtempted Jesus by allowing Satan to offer him goodies"...where is this written?

  you said: "Satan said that Jehovah had delivered all the nations in his hands "...where is this written?

  you said: "Satan didn't create the conflict about knowledge."...that isn't what I said. I said, satan "made" the conflict about knowledge (where the original prohabition from God was about death.)

  What had God lied to Adam about? "In the day you eat of it you will surely die. Adam didn't die that day"...now who's being literal when it suits?

  love michelle
• 
  47

  If there is such a thing as ORIGINAL SIN what does that do to "morality"?

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "it is the concept of original sin that negates morality.. if man is guilty by nature, he has no choice about it.. if he has no choice, the issue does not belong in the field of morality.

  morality pertains only to the sphere of man's free will -- only to those actions which are open to his choice.. to consider man guilty by nature is a contradiction in terms.".

  augustine had the mistaken view that many metaphysicians had at that time: all humans were "nested" inside of adam like those russian dolls that fit inside each other.

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  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  you said: "Was the tree a MORAL tree? Creator God had pronounced it "Good"."

  the creation was pronounced good and then God warned about THAT tree...if it was still "good" then there wouldn't have been a need to warn against it, now would there?

  you said: "So how is it this strange little invention, man, can piss God off by performing according to its own nature?"...

  I'm sure that God sent His Son because He cared for mankind and there was no other way out of the predicament that he had gotten himself into.

  you asked: "Doesn't the above heartwarming story indicate "experiential knowledge" BEFORE being expelled?"...

  no, it indicates, as I've said before...some realisation of his fall from grace. he knew he was no longer "covered"...he hadn't experienced WHAT no longer being covered was. As that experience was realised outside the garden...where the toil and pain is.

  love michelle
• 
  25

  Is the story of the Garden of Eden simply a Rabbinical puzzle of SQUARING the circle??

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  you said: "I'm glad you mentioned SATAN! Satan: (who IS NOT named in the Genesis account just as the word "Test" is not used.) Adam is presented with a CONFLICT of information. How does a homo sapien solve a conflict which involves "death"? Human Nature is to pursue further KNOWLEDGE. Which is exactly why Adam was impelled to the source of KNOWLEDGE: the tree."...

  taking the whole revelation of God in context asserts that the serpent in the garden was satan. taking the whole revelation of God in context asserts that God does not test/tempt with evil.

  satan used misdirection didn't he?...HE "made" the conflict about knowledge. *cough*

  love michelle
• 
  47

  If there is such a thing as ORIGINAL SIN what does that do to "morality"?

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "it is the concept of original sin that negates morality.. if man is guilty by nature, he has no choice about it.. if he has no choice, the issue does not belong in the field of morality.

  morality pertains only to the sphere of man's free will -- only to those actions which are open to his choice.. to consider man guilty by nature is a contradiction in terms.".

  augustine had the mistaken view that many metaphysicians had at that time: all humans were "nested" inside of adam like those russian dolls that fit inside each other.

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  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  in the garden of eden there was an ideal situation between A&E, they were "companions"...where does there exist a need to learn a moral code?

  the need to teach/learn a moral code arises when the original two reproduced...there is the tension, when the many are not "one".

  I think you blur the line between living in the grace of God and living with the need for the grace of God.

  for instance...A&E didn't gain experiential knowledge of sin upon eating the fruit...the experiential knowledge occured after they were expelled...

  there is no way that buying a ticket to a concert is actually the experience of attending a concert.

  love michelle
• 
  47

  If there is such a thing as ORIGINAL SIN what does that do to "morality"?

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "it is the concept of original sin that negates morality.. if man is guilty by nature, he has no choice about it.. if he has no choice, the issue does not belong in the field of morality.

  morality pertains only to the sphere of man's free will -- only to those actions which are open to his choice.. to consider man guilty by nature is a contradiction in terms.".

  augustine had the mistaken view that many metaphysicians had at that time: all humans were "nested" inside of adam like those russian dolls that fit inside each other.

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  myelaine

  it is only outside the garden that a "moral code" is addressed.

  what kind of moral code do you think was needed between A&E in the garden?...or was it introduced, as learned, by the parents as "family" increased outside the garden?

  xo
• 
  25

  Is the story of the Garden of Eden simply a Rabbinical puzzle of SQUARING the circle??

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  I'm not "chiding" at all...I'm stating my opinion.

  please don't be one of "those guys"

  does the text say anything about adam's pursuit of knowledge besides the "tree encounter"?...no...you are imposing that on the text.

  in actuality the pursuit of knowledge is seen as a NEGATIVE in this scenario.

  love michelle
• 
  25

  Is the story of the Garden of Eden simply a Rabbinical puzzle of SQUARING the circle??

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  my point is, without knowledge of the "big world" you wouldn't be threatened you would be warned...as adam was.

  my point is not moot...the biblical text doesn't say that it was God who "tested"...it was satan who deceived...

  love michelle
• 
  25

  Is the story of the Garden of Eden simply a Rabbinical puzzle of SQUARING the circle??

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  you said: "In no way was the first man presented as the end of a long rational process of learning, weighing, deciding over many years time in testing situations to hone skills for making a LIFE OR DEATH FIRST DECISION!"...

  exactly!...so why are you forcing it into the text with a statement like this: "In the Garden of Eden the newly created homo sapien must struggle with the TENSION between the CHOICE to pursue KNOWLEDGE rather than TO SURVIVE!"...???

  love michelle
• 
  25

  Is the story of the Garden of Eden simply a Rabbinical puzzle of SQUARING the circle??

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  you said: "The threat of death FROM GOD is something man did not survive because of the contrived "test" of his ability to deny human nature in the first place!"...

  why is it a "threat" to you and a warning to me?

  when you were a little one were you threatened with death if you went and played in traffic?

  there is no place in the bible that says that this WAS a testdesigned by God...in fact the bible says that God DOES NOT test with evil!!

  love michelle

  p.s. I hope you're not twisting the scriptures to your own destruction