Posts by myelaine

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

dear David_Jay...

you said, "Remember, our culture is very much a product of monotheism as monotheism is a product of the unique Jewish culture. The rules are not written in Scripture. For Jews the Scriptures came after the rules were set in place. Our worship is not based on Scripture as much as the Scriptures are based on what we believe and how we worship. It is a product of our faith, not its foundation or rule book."...

I guess I have to question "jewish" authority then. The OT is replete with God's desire for israel to return to those "rules" or the paths that were set "before" the scriptures. I can't imagine God asking the jews to return to something that wasn't clearly spelled out, which the law of moses is (in minute detail). Before Jesus came to Jerusalem the rabbis added to the law and Jesus found the need to correct them regarding those additions only (call these additions interpretation that formed the way they worshiped). Now it seems that the pendulum has swung the other way. With the various sects of judaism the more progressive form has removed aspects of the law in their interpretation of worship practice. I'll suggest the humanist approach has been elevated (though beneficial) to the same status as God's Holy law.(not sure if I'm expressing myself to be correctly understood here but as an example...) If modern judaism progressed to the point where a practicing* homosexual was welcomed and encouraged to be a member of the congregation because the judaic religion's "current understanding" is that it "is a value that serves humanity best"...though it is a balm to all and sundry, isn't the acquiescence to that progressive thought, without exception, a fly in the ointment?

It was said earlier in this thread: how presumptuous of JW's to think they can interpret the jewish scriptures, or something like that. I'd like to say how presumptuous of "judaism" to amend scripture thinking they have the authority by virtue of being jewish! (Paul said it wasn't the law that saved, it was grace through faith in the God who inspired the scripture...the ONE who commissioned the rules)

I don't know all the mysteries of God...yet...but I do know that Jesus is the written word made flesh and if He is perfect then the word/torah is perfect. My God says so. The Father says listen to the Son, He is well pleased with the Son. While I spent time in the city listening to the authority there I was eventually led out into the wilderness by my Saviour away from the "prevailing" authority. I started listening to the Son, hearing Him. That meant becoming torah observant to the best of my ability. I'm putting on the new man. It's great and I know that I will be judged, not by the religion and culture of the jews (that came after the rules) but, in the land of my nativity. Ezekiel 21:18:32.

love michelle

*if you wanna go there...

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

"This doesn't mean that we ignore the Law. What it means is that Jews must learn and apply Law "through human hands," with reason, with current understandings."...

what do you think that God REALLY meant when He repeatedly said "Return to Me"? or jeremiah 6:16...19?

Doesn't this verse in jeremiah contrast God's path, His words and His law with the thoughts of men? ie: human reason and "current understandings" kinda like judges 21:25?

xo

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

dear David_Jay...

you said, " It isn't that one must adhere to old laws for God to come into the world as much as we are responsible for bringing God into the world by the rightly choosing of virtues that serve humanity best."...

how is this different than secular humanism or establishing a God patterned after your own idea of righteousness?

if the intention is God going WITH you on His path, then I would say that this sounds like "racing ahead of God's chariot", so to speak.

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

dear David_Jay...

You said, "In fact, though it tells its readers that Christians have a greater tabernacle than the Jews ever had, it never mentions the Temple, the center of Jewish worship, never even using the word or describing the grand centerpiece of Judaism."...I'm sorry, you're right. I wasn't even thinking about the epistle to the Hebrews in my comment but, the ONE greater temple envisioned for BOTH jews and christians.

Also...

"Even though he later made a mess of things when he attempted to leave off from eating kosher among Gentiles (Galatians 2.11-14)"...I don't think paul attempted to teach leaving off eating kosher. Peter did say that in all his letters paul teaches things hard to understand and that some twist his teachings to their own destruction. There is: Numbers 15:16

TheWonderofYou...

this article may be of interest to you. It contrasts the burden and yoke of what was rabbinc judaism at the time of Christ and the yoke and burden that Christ asked man to take upon himself.

http://messianicpublications.com/tim-hegg/acts-15-the-jerusalem-council/

love michelle

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

(Matthew 12:1-5)

Do the GB understand that in regard to the law it is actually God reaching out with forgiveness with the intent of reconcilliation to Him? Neither of these can be accomplished with a dead sinner. Matthew 12:7

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

dear David_Jay...

you said, "In fact, though it tells its readers that Christians have a greater tabernacle than the Jews ever had, it never mentions the Temple, the center of Jewish worship, never even using the word or describing the grand centerpiece of Judaism."...

the book or revelation describes the greatest temple of all time (rev. 21:22) in the city of God...not one of the city's twelve gates say "gentile gate".

isaiah 66:1 (we will rest IN Him)

xoxo

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

dear TD...

you said, "If you view the Law as ultimately condemnatory, that's fine as long as you realize that you, as a Christian are not under it."...

I view the law as a guide or prescription for man to walk through life in the right way before a Holy God. I don't think that it is negative but positive. The reason behind paul saying it is "against" the gentile is simply because the gentile had never been subject to it before...we were "wild" so to speak. Much like the hebrews were before God found them "in a pool of blood (babies) and He took them in (gave them the torah) and they grew from children to a young maiden to His wife.(Ezekiel 16:3-14) This growth from babies to maturity is what is required in the "bride of Christ". I don't believe that paul taught "lawlessness" for the bride of Christ. He taught the gentiles that we were to put on the NEW man and leave behind the old man, that "wild, lawless man". In preparation to become the bride of Christ the gentile has to become someone that He can co-habitate with (lev. 16:32-34) not someone whom the law demands be removed from the camp. Christ went outside the camp to cleanse those ones so they could enter the camp...He didn't show this mercy (romans 5:8) so that we could go back to (wild) lawlessness but so that sin was covered by His blood and we could walk in NEWNESS of life. Newness of life for the gentile is a new path...God's path that He gave to the jews...that right path that is blessed and leads to blessings from God (deut 28:1-9)...these blessings were extended to the "stranger" in the camp back in the day just as they are extended to the gentile today...IF that gentile walks in "the Way" of God as the bride of Christ. The bible says very clearly that the bride has prepared HERSELF (some action on our part) and has washed her (filthy) robes in the blood of the Lamb...BEFORE she goes into the Fathers house to co-habitate with the bridegroom.

xo

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

The jews are an ethnic group. Some know the Father, some know the Son and some don't believe in a creator at all and some just don't know.

the bible teaches that the "saints", those jews who believe in God will turn to Jesus as their Messiah. I don't doubt that God empowers them to bring their kinsmen into communion with God through Christ as a result.

Since you asked my opinion of yourself and given that I don't know you but only have the "tone" of your posts and what you say to go by, I'd answer, if you are a jw and a jew you straddle the very last group, I'm afraid. you don't know Jesus AS Saviour because you don't know God, technically you worship the golden calf called the WT. BUT there is hope, beloved!! When confronted with Christ and your kinsmen, surely you'll see the REAL Light.

xo

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

dear Fisherman...

you said, "Seems that Jehovah wanted to kill as many as possible by unleashing the Roman army at the right time, only after the city was filled, using the law of Moses as a trap to catch as many as possible"...

First of all...the bible teaches explicity that the jews are God's chosen people, the apple of His eye and the bible teaches that they have a huge part in God's endtime purpose for the nations. The bible teaches that you shouldn't boast against the jews because if some of the natural branches weren't spared the wild ones wont be either.

secondly, Jesus was in conflict with the leaders of the temple, not the "laity". God would not ordain sacred assemblies for all His people and use that occasion to murder them. To suggest such a thing is slanderous and I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you that you will be held accountable for every-word-you-speak at the judgement seat.

p.s. "Shavouth

Interestingly corresponds with God's Holy Spirit operative upon non-Jews"...

Shavout is the commemoration of the giving of the gift of the torah...God's means of teaching His people to walk in His way. The gift of the Holy Spirit was for the same reason. It was poured out primarily on jews in jerusalem at pentecost not non-jews. Jesus told the visiting jews to TARRY in jerusalem until it was poured out.

87

Think for Yourself: Reform Judaism Uses JW Blood Issue For Shavuot

by David_Jay in

as the jewish holy day of shavuot (pentecost) begins this weekend, the reform judaism site publishes an interesting article entitled "judaism teaches: question authority, think for yourself.".

the article employs a jewish doctor's recollection of a jw patient who refused blood and died as an example of how both religious traditions greatly differ on how they see and apply god's law.. shavuot is the day jews recall god's giving the law to israel.

the article is significant in that it demonstrates how jews see the giving of the law as a call to questioning authority, including divine revelation itself whereas the death of the jw patient is contrasted as a slavish interpretation that misses the point behind jewish scripture.. for more see the article at:.

myelaine

dear TD...

you said, "In Pauline theology, the Law brings death and is ultimately condemnatory because no man could keep it."...

paul's theology incorporated the legalities of the law and he indicates that ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death. So the law is ultimately condemnatory of both jew and gentile. The jew because the law was a perfect "body" of guidelines and if a jew let one law fall then it was a trespass against the entire body of law. The grace afforded them was the sacrificial system. Paul was teaching gentiles this legal perspective in his gospel of Christ. Jesus was the perfect living word/torah who was propitiation if one let a law fall (by omission or commission) for BOTH jew and gentile alike. interestingly, Jesus states that He was sent first to the lost (off the path) sheep of the house of israel...and by 70AD with the destruction of the temple any who hadn't accepted Him as Messiah were forced by circumstance to let the sacrificial law fall.

love michelle