Posts by myelaine

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

myelaine

dear Whynot...

I hope you use the link I posted in your studies. It contains scripture that points to the elements of original sin in the OT and rabbinic thought.

☺

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

myelaine

dear Whynot...

The apostle Paul did produce the "bones" for the doctrine of original sin in his letters and the first disciples of Jesus recognized that there was an Adamic stain of sin that could only be covered by a personal redeemer.

It isn't fair to say that the doctrine originated with Augustine though he is recognized as the first example we have of someone who explored and wrote about it, to flesh it out. Paul certainly had a grasp of the doctrine and may have elaborated on it without putting it in his letters.

http://www.arcaneknowledge.org/catholic/original.htm

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

myelaine

dear Whynot...

You said, "When the Bible was written there was no concept of original sin. I'm trying to figure out when this idea emerged. So far I have found that St. Augustine wrote about this first."...

"To begin, we must find out what the Bible says about our being born in sin. David, the man after God’s own heart, wrote in Psalm 51:5, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.” The apostle Paul wrote that we all gratify “the cravings of our sinful nature” (Ephesians 2:3). That means there is something naturally inside us that pushes us toward sin.

So, the Bible certainly does teach that we are born in sin. Did God just arbitrarily decide people were going to be born sinful? The answer is found in connection with the first man, Adam. When Adam was created (without sin) by God and placed in the garden of Eden, he was also given a simple law (Genesis 2:16–17). Adam disobeyed God’s law, and God pronounced him guilty and sentenced him to death. It was Adam’s choice to disobey that made him guilty before God. He was the father of the human race, and his traits were passed on to his children. Romans 5:12 says that sin entered the world through Adam, and death came through sin, because all sinned. As descendants of Adam, we received the sin nature passed down from our fathers. That makes us born in sin, with a natural inclination to do wrong."

Romans 5:19

love michelle

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

myelaine

dear venus...

I can see where you might be confused about Jesus' atonement on behalf of man. Yes, scripture says that one person can not atone for the sins of another. This is true. If I steal something from you and another person replaces it or pays you the value of the stolen property, you may be satisfied but the fact that I stole from you isn't atoned for. The other person hasn't/can't atone for my sin. It's still my sin. Now, if I replace what was stolen or the value of that item, I am trying to atone for my sin. You have the option of accepting my atonement and forgiving me or rejecting it. The ball would be in your court, so to speak, but I have made atonement for my own sin. (cf. Deut. 24:16)

When God led the children of israel out of egypt, His main concern WAS that He wanted them to be obedient to His word/commands so that they would be blessed. His main concern WASN'T that they do sacrifices. He wanted/wants an obedient heart He doesn't want external religious observance as a "replacement value". (cf. 7:22-23) King David said as much in Psalm 40:6_8.
No, God never commanded that people sacrifice their children to Him. It never entered His mind that they should do that. That is, however, completely different than the animal sacrifices that were prescribed as a means of atonement a "replacement value"...a perfect animal from a repentant heart. Even then, a person had to seek out the person sinned against and try to make restitution before the "day of atonement". Why would a person have to participate in the "day of atonement" if they'd already atoned for their sin and been forgiven by the person they'd sinned against? Because the person had ALSO sinned against God in their disobedience. "Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins." The soul that sins shall die. (cf. Ezek. 18:20)

Does our death ever cancel our sin debt? No. We are not perfect nor was our death a sacrifice. With few exceptions, we don't even want to die.

How is Jesus' sacrifice different? He was perfect and He knew He was a King and a Priest. Being a Priest, He knew He was called to offer sacrifice(s). He read it in the Hebrew bible.

Why doesn't Luke say exactly what Matthew did in Matt. 20:25-28? Who knows, but it's not an indication that Jesus didn't know He was a sacrifice. Luke 22:41-44. He knew He was israels redeemer, He read it in the hebrew bible (His disciples even read that the Messiah would redeem israel). Luke 24:20-21, 25-27.

Did you know that there were all kinds of scribes in israel. The scribes spoken of in Jeremiah 8:8 weren't the scribes tasked with copying the word of God in an official capacity. An official document was housed in the temple. The document housed in the temple was created with meticulous care by faithful scribes who believed they were writing the word of God...Jeremiah was a prophet during the time that a torah scroll was found in the temple and given to Josiah. We can be pretty sure Jeremiah wasn't saying that that torah had been corrupted by scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) since it's contents caused national repentance. A corrupt torah would cause people to turn away from God. Jeremiah didn't say that every torah that existed at that time was written by "the false pen of the scribes" either. God spoke to His prophet Jeremiah and later repeated the words of a prophecy after it had been destroyed. God could have easily repeated the torah to Jeremiah uncorrupted IF it was a question of every torah that existed being corrupted by false scribes.

love michelle

20

Have you ever considered how bizarre the idea of "War in Heaven" really is?

by TerryWalstrom in

when you grow up and look back on childhood belief you have to laugh at how.

easter bunnies and santa were all too plausible for children because trusted adults who were otherwise unimpeachable sources of truth and reality assured and reassured kids.

why wouldn't they accept it?jehovah's witness kids didn't have santa, we had armageddon.only this morning i suddenly asked myself why i ever accepted the idea of a war in heaven as even remotely sane.

myelaine

Terry says: "If I were God and if you were God, we could snap our insuperable fingers and all evil beings would vanish. Snap. All done."

That sounds like a JW thing.

Because I love people, I'd go to war. 2 Corinthians 10:3-6.

xoxo

20

Have you ever considered how bizarre the idea of "War in Heaven" really is?

by TerryWalstrom in

when you grow up and look back on childhood belief you have to laugh at how.

easter bunnies and santa were all too plausible for children because trusted adults who were otherwise unimpeachable sources of truth and reality assured and reassured kids.

why wouldn't they accept it?jehovah's witness kids didn't have santa, we had armageddon.only this morning i suddenly asked myself why i ever accepted the idea of a war in heaven as even remotely sane.

myelaine

dear Terry...

Yes, I have given consideration to the idea.

The vision that John saw about the age old struggle between good and evil is personified in a similar way the domain of good is heaven and evil is earth when satan is cast down/out. John's vision presents the image of opposition. This vision doesn't have to be physical opposition but spiritual or in the realm of ideologies. Scripture says "we do not struggle against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ideologies that have been put forward and lifted up as superior to what God has revealed in His Word. Proverbs 14:12.
Scripture says that man can enter boldly before the throne of God (there's no arguing that this is physical transportation. In prayer we "stand" before the throne of God. Hebrews 4:16.
Scripture says that believers in Jesus are standing on Mt. Zion (there's no arguing that this is a physical transportation. In Christ we are lifted up and "stand" on "heavenly ground". Hebrews 12:22.

Jude 9

love michelle ❤

114

The biggest news of the year for Mr. and Mrs. Totally ADD

by Still Totally ADD in

jw
friends

this is bigger than christmas and birthdays wrap into one.

thanks to the australian royal commission our youngest son has woke up.

we received a e-mail from him tonight where he apologized to us for shunning us all these years, how bad he felt for doing this.

myelaine

Awesome!

Congratulations all of you! ❤

23

Very little that is factual in the Bible?

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mryipltf3i.

myelaine

dear Terry...

I suspect it would be difficult to arrive at any other conclusion, than the one you've stated above, when one is as intractable as you are.

Jesus countered your conclusion in one sentence: neither life nor death are meaningless...John 15:13.

https://youtu.be/jRv-fgfLFTk

love michelle ❤

7

Isaiah 45:7 I make peace, and create evil

by pleaseresearch in

what is your thought on this particular scripture?.

how do you think a jw would respond to this if shown?.

king james biblei form the light, and create darkness: i make peace, and create evil: i the lord do all these things..

myelaine

Isaiah 45:19...

The curses or evil that God can bring upon people are the consequences of disobedience. cf Deut. 30:19. Often it is a case of a person being outside of God's protective "hedge". It should also be noted that even though God created "evil" and curses, they DON'T fall on everyone who IS disobedient which leads one to believe more so in the idea that God is talking about consequences not direct retribution.

For instance: a law that says build a railing around your rooftop (Deut. 22:8).
If you build the railing you can relax and enjoy the blessings of a rooftop deck with family and friends. If you don't build it, you're worried about someone falling off. Your neighbour falls off, breaks a leg (or worse), wants compensation for drop in personal income, you're stressed because you can't come up with any extra cash, possibility of neighbour becoming enemy. All of that evil could have been avoided if you had stayed inside the protective hedge of God's law.

So, contrary to the WT armageddon motif...the evil/curse isn't usually about evil people "getting it" from God OR God being a moral monster.

16

GB and Moses—an interesting similarity!

by Ireneus in

moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight.

his wife, zipporah, daughter of a pagan midianite priest (exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than moses.

on one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving moses from being killed by jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the israelites’ exodus from egypt.

myelaine

dear Ireneus...

A two week journey took 40 years.
What happened to the Hebrews, during that wondering, that wouldn't have happened if they got 5 star treatment while being ushered directly into the promised land? What happened because of the extended journey?

You have your own idea about how the "real" God would have treated the Hebrews, how has He treated you since you began your journey? Have you got anything to report?

michelle