"That presupposes..."
yup :)
xo
myelaine
JoinedPosts by myelaine
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52
USING CONTEXT to understand 'supernatural' Jesus
by TerryWalstrom into 27 b.c.e.. in the years of roman republic, no man was called a god (or even a king).
however, 200 years of peace under a ruler imperator, (emperor) gradually relaxed the fears of romans of having a dictator.
surely the gods had bestowed unusual approval!
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52
USING CONTEXT to understand 'supernatural' Jesus
by TerryWalstrom into 27 b.c.e.. in the years of roman republic, no man was called a god (or even a king).
however, 200 years of peace under a ruler imperator, (emperor) gradually relaxed the fears of romans of having a dictator.
surely the gods had bestowed unusual approval!
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myelaine
"There are 41,000 denominations in Christianity. How lucky can a fellow be to accidentally hit the 'true' one--IF there is a 'true' one?"...
luck would be on your side Terry.
most of these 41,000 divisions are along the lines of tradition, governance, and organization. In fact, as far as the truth being taught most of the 41,000 are theologically identical.
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myelaine
Hi Grace!
How many GB members does it take to change an old light?
...the majority of them ;)
love michelle <3
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67
Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?
by TerryWalstrom inthe purpose of this topic is twofold.. first, any who are endlessly fascinated by scholarship, practised by genuine bible scholars, are urged by me to do what i did, subscribe to bart ehrman's blog.
the subscription money (as little as $3.95) goes entirely to charity.. secondarily, by broadening our view of the new testament era on up through two millennia to the present day, our knowledge of all things 'christian' is deepened to include actual knowledge (as opposed to watchtower fabrication.
by this i don't mean to imply you'll fall to your knees and get saved, but rather, you'll simply have facts to inform your present transitional mindset toward whatever end you finally choose.. now .
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myelaine
dear Viviane...
We were commenting on the first commandment. You said that it admits to and allows for worship of other gods. I disagreed because monotheism doesn't allow for worship of other gods. You responded:
"The Bible shows that, at most, the Israelites and Hebrews were henotheistic. Monotheism was a much later addition. Hence why they had many gods, a continuum of divinity, men becoming god and gods becoming me."
the text says that when moses was on the mountain with God the israelites were making gods for themselves. God told moses to get down there because they were corrupting themselves by doing contrary to what He had commanded. exodus 32:1,7-8.
the ten commandments that were delivered to the israelites started with exodus 34:14,28.
I don't know what you mean when you say monotheism was a much later addition. It appears to me that israelite belief in and worship of only one God was on the agenda as far as God and moses were concerned...at the time the first of the ten commandments was written. (I'm not disputing the fact that the israelites did fall into false worship but, monotheisim had already been introduced and the first commandment didn't allow for worship of other gods as you suggest)
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35
If you have faith like a grain of mustard seed ...
by Simon inmatthew 17:20 - he said to them, because of your little faith.
for truly, i say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, move from here to there, and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.. i get the 'message' - if you believe enough (in fact, even a tiny amount - a mustard seed being tiny) then nothing is impossible but really, what a ridiculous statement and idea for several reasons.. there are lots of people who believe things completely and sincerely even to the point of death.
so far i've not noticed any sudden movements of any mountain ranges.
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myelaine
what I glean from luke 17:5-10 is: Jesus was talking about forgiving your brother and the apostles asked Him to increase their faith. His answer basicly said...asking for increased faith to do that (forgive) is like expecting to be rewarded (increased faith) for something that you're supposed to do...a reward would make you an unprofitable servant.
Increased faith isn't needed to forgive.
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35
If you have faith like a grain of mustard seed ...
by Simon inmatthew 17:20 - he said to them, because of your little faith.
for truly, i say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, move from here to there, and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.. i get the 'message' - if you believe enough (in fact, even a tiny amount - a mustard seed being tiny) then nothing is impossible but really, what a ridiculous statement and idea for several reasons.. there are lots of people who believe things completely and sincerely even to the point of death.
so far i've not noticed any sudden movements of any mountain ranges.
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myelaine
Island Man...
the jihadist has something more urgent motivating him than the belief in virgins waiting in heaven. The koran says that if you don't fight in the cause of allah you are a hypocrite and you will be killed by your "brothers"...therefore to avoid being killed, do the truth or be truthful. koran 3:167-168
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35
If you have faith like a grain of mustard seed ...
by Simon inmatthew 17:20 - he said to them, because of your little faith.
for truly, i say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, move from here to there, and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.. i get the 'message' - if you believe enough (in fact, even a tiny amount - a mustard seed being tiny) then nothing is impossible but really, what a ridiculous statement and idea for several reasons.. there are lots of people who believe things completely and sincerely even to the point of death.
so far i've not noticed any sudden movements of any mountain ranges.
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myelaine
Kingdoms are spoken of as mountains in scripture. If the disciples had the faith to cast out demons they could move mountains. As can be seen in scripture, when they aquired the faith to cast out demons they also had the faith to set about "moving" mountains/kingdoms...
So, this saying of Christ may have been an eschatological teaching instead of just a pep talk. (Jesus said it takes MORE than faith to do what they wanted to do) the ability to cast out demons was given to the disciples as a sign and wonder and they believed in Jesus...became subjects of His kingdom.
daniel 2:34-35; daniel 2:44-45
faith in Christ and what He can accomplish through you is a gift from God.
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67
Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?
by TerryWalstrom inthe purpose of this topic is twofold.. first, any who are endlessly fascinated by scholarship, practised by genuine bible scholars, are urged by me to do what i did, subscribe to bart ehrman's blog.
the subscription money (as little as $3.95) goes entirely to charity.. secondarily, by broadening our view of the new testament era on up through two millennia to the present day, our knowledge of all things 'christian' is deepened to include actual knowledge (as opposed to watchtower fabrication.
by this i don't mean to imply you'll fall to your knees and get saved, but rather, you'll simply have facts to inform your present transitional mindset toward whatever end you finally choose.. now .
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myelaine
"Not worshiping other gods in Yahweh's presence also allows for worship of other gods. Either interpretation admits and allows for worship of other gods."...
your interpretation allows for worship of other gods however the premise of monotheism does not.
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67
Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?
by TerryWalstrom inthe purpose of this topic is twofold.. first, any who are endlessly fascinated by scholarship, practised by genuine bible scholars, are urged by me to do what i did, subscribe to bart ehrman's blog.
the subscription money (as little as $3.95) goes entirely to charity.. secondarily, by broadening our view of the new testament era on up through two millennia to the present day, our knowledge of all things 'christian' is deepened to include actual knowledge (as opposed to watchtower fabrication.
by this i don't mean to imply you'll fall to your knees and get saved, but rather, you'll simply have facts to inform your present transitional mindset toward whatever end you finally choose.. now .
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myelaine
In my comments I'm trying to make a distinction between the words deity (that which is worshipping) and divinity(that which merits "special" appreciation. ie: hebrews 13:17)
"It's a false distinction. The fact that ancient Jewish writings had prohibitions against worshiping angels proves that worship of the divine (and not deity) was happening in the Jewish community. You're making a distinction without difference."...
doesn't the fact that religious authorities made prohibitions against worshiping angels show that they saw a distinction between deity and divinity?
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67
Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?
by TerryWalstrom inthe purpose of this topic is twofold.. first, any who are endlessly fascinated by scholarship, practised by genuine bible scholars, are urged by me to do what i did, subscribe to bart ehrman's blog.
the subscription money (as little as $3.95) goes entirely to charity.. secondarily, by broadening our view of the new testament era on up through two millennia to the present day, our knowledge of all things 'christian' is deepened to include actual knowledge (as opposed to watchtower fabrication.
by this i don't mean to imply you'll fall to your knees and get saved, but rather, you'll simply have facts to inform your present transitional mindset toward whatever end you finally choose.. now .
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myelaine
dear Viviane...
you said, "El (the supreme God) and Yahweh are distinct and different gods, along with Asherah, who was ALSO worshiped. El, in proto-Hebrew Semitic religion (from which the Hebrew religion sprang), El Elyon was dad and Yahweh and Ba'al were brothers... so, exactly what I said. Yahweh is their national God, the one they worship FIRST, but they also worship many others."...
The religion of the hebrews sprang from encounters with God. In their efforts to conceptualize for themselves Who this God they encountered was, what He did, what He would do etc. they drew on local mythologies to express themselves. The God they encountered did exist prior to the local god Yahweh (as JD pointed out with reference to Melchizadek, Abraham and jacob). The God they encountered is creator of earth, God of the earth and He chose the hebrews. Some of these actions in time resemble actions attributed to a local god named Yahweh...that NAME and what it means is a perfect expression of who their one God is. That's how Yahweh can pre-date the semetic religion from which he sprang.
one reason I think that the commandment to worship no other God before Me means in my presence or in front of me (instead of your interpretation, worship Me as the highest God of many gods you can worship) is in the israelite sacrificial system itself. The sacrifices and offerings that were required throughout the year appear to be something that is required by other gods as a means of worship...a god of the harvest, a god of livestock...a god of tribal protection/preservation etc. All those "things" that were distributed to many gods by other tribes for gain were to be given to one God.
love michelle
