Posts by myelaine

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

OnTheWayOut...

If the OT prophets hadn't said "the people have seen a great light" (speaking of the future) then I couldn't have quoted it as being fulfulled by you simply commenting about Jesus. The future that they spoke of has arrived and here you are talking about that light.

If the OT prophets hadn't said "the Servant will cause the gentiles to come to God" (speaking of the future) then I couldn't quote it as being fulfilled either but the fact that millions of gentiles have come to that God prove its fulfillment.

These aren't prophecies that were obvious at the time. Given the history of the israelites it's incredible that theirs survived as a distict culture up until Jesus' time let alone producing a Son that caused non-israelites to magnify their God. An improvement to the first phone was obvious, these prophecies being fulfilled was not obvious.

Greek and roman culture and their gods had far more to offer the gentiles at the time than Jesus seemed to. A hedonistic society isn't interested in eternal spiritual advantage, they're interested in pleasure now, not promises and persecution. No, it wasn't just a fluke that those prophecies were fulfilled...and they were fulfilled.

I wasn't talking about just any people knowing about the OT. I was talking about you but I can certainly include most of the western world. If Jesus hadn't been sent, the NT writers wouldn't have written about Him, the gentiles wouldn't have any reason to seek out the God the OT writers were talking about. The message of Jesus wouldn't have gone out over the world, you wouldn't have been a JW. The religious jews still don't proselytize, they're still exclusive, and people still aren't attracted to their God, per se. (People are attracted to the greco-roman version of Jesus...the one that has lost His jewishness). There is no reason to believe you or anyone else who is a not a jew would take a personal interest in finding out about the OT or the God it speaks of if it wasn't for the Servant that God sent. (Isaiah 52:13-15).

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

OnTheWayOut...

The subject you mentioned wasn't isis or thor or any number of other gods though, was it? My response to you was specific to the person YOU alluded to. That you want to deflect(spin around) my assertion instead of finding merit in the truth of it says more about your closed mind than you're likely to admit.

Besides which. It takes an open mind to believe something fantastical and a closed mind to reject the same thing. Hello?!

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

dear cofty...

As long as we're talking about bible themes (which this OP is: prophesy leading to belief) sin has to be part of the conversation because it is the main theme of the bible. Whether you or I believe there is such a thing isn't really tangential to the discussion, is it?

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

You're still not dealing with the MAIN THEME of the entire bible. Sin and transgression of God's law. The bible does contrast light and darkness but it is ALWAYS in relation to sin...not the death and birth cycles of aeons. It just isn't. Jesus isn't a name that was attahed to ANE myths either, again...His mission was redemption and the theme He stck with was personal sin. The gods of the ANE myths weren't concerned about personal or corporate sin, AT ALL.

When paul was on mars hill he didn't take the opportunity to tell his listeners that all these other statues are really the God he was preaching. No, he told them about the unknown (to them) God who was not those other gods. His listeners were intrigued by what he was saying...this "new" revelation.

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

dear Hanged Man...

So, basicly you're appropriating the name Jesus and just attaching it to your principal. Why? Do you think it might validate your principal in some way or perhaps invalidate the biblical precepts? Why attach the name Jesus (specifically) to your principal? Is there some reason why your principal couldn't stand on its own merits?

According to the bible, moses and Jesus had addressed the problem of transgression/sin as their MAIN theme. Why would the bible give so much ink to this problem and its resolution if, as you say, the bible is really talking about birth and death cycles?

Assuming moses and Jesus and all the bible writers were learned enough to write a book like the bible, don't you think they would have come right out and said the things you suggest they were saying?

What would be the point? Anyone can see that things are born and things die. The earth and all that is in it are part of a cycle. The thing is, there is no point in stating the obvious. The bible is a revelation of things that aren't obvious. It actually even says that in a few places...

I mean really, you believe the bible writers concealed the obvious in a mystery for future generations (which was also stated as a command-teach your children this stuff). That doesn't seem at all odd to you? Or condesending to human intellect?

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

dear Hanged Man...

Death was a symptom. The bible says the problem that Jesus came to address was sin. "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!".How does your "principal of light and truth" address the cause or does it? Keeping in mind that in the bible, sin is not some vague notion but specifically transgression of the law/instructions of God. 1 john 3:4. We are told even in the very beginning A & E had one law/instruction to obey and they transgressed/sinned and brought death to mankind. If your principal doesn't address the cause it's nothing like Jesus and it certainly isn't the real Jesus.

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

dear OnTheWayOut...

The very fact that you have an opinion about Jesus' claim to be God's Messiah PROVES the validity of the OT scripture that says "the people have seen a great light". Whether that light is knowledge of the God of the bible OR Jesus. Without the Messiah there is no reason to believe you'd EVER have any clue about the contents of the OT and there wouldn't be a NT. The fact that gentiles believe in the God of the OT PROVES that the Servant spoken of in the OT that would bring them to belief, isn't some future Messiah. It's Jesus. He's the one that brought gentiles to God (isaiah 52:13-15) Just sayin'

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

dear Crazyguy...

The jewish leaders didn't see the miracles, they only heard about them. That's why they came out to see what all the hub bub about this man was about.
There were ordinary people that saw the miracles but all of them? Not likely. In a crowd of 5000 the people nearest Jesus would have seen but not the ones farther away. Even if the message that Jesus multiplied the fish and loaves was relayed to every person as they received the food, without seeing the miracles for themselves I imagine there were a lot of people that didn't believe the message. In most cases the individuals who came to Jesus for a miracle said they "heard" He could help. So many did believe based on what they had heard not what they had seen but not everyone was so easily convinced. (Besides miracles in themselves wouldn't be the proof that Jesus was the promised Messiah if the people were expecting a national redeemer and strictly speaking, Jesus was a personal redeemer OT scripture says jews and gentiles).
The jewish leaders were not going to believe in what they had heard, they wanted to see. However, Jesus wasn't there to do miracles for everyone, He was sent to redeem israel. Because His mission didn't give the religious leaders a role in Israel's redemption, He was working against their agenda. He had to be cautious too. If He had done miracles specifically for the leaders and then told them that they had no part in the plan He would have been killed sooner than He was. Remember, the leaders held great sway over the jewish population. Notably, people with a reputation in the community were sneaking around so they wouldn't get caught with Jesus and lose their place in the community. He was a big deal and the leaders knew it. They weren't going to believe hearsay, and if they saw the real deal, they were going to kill the miracle worker because they didn't fit into His plan. The only way to cause them to believe was pointing out in the scriptures that Jesus was the promised Messiah. In that way the decision was between the word of God that they said they ALREADY believed in and their own consciences. Jesus said, "if you TRULY believed moses, you would believe in Me also...".

So, it was about proving from the OT that Jesus was the Messiah sent from God not specifically miracles to prove that He was sent from God.

One obstacle to their belief that Jesus was the redeemer was the fact that His redemption was an eternal spiritual redemption and that wasn't something the leaders in particular thought that israel needed. They weren't sinners like the gentiles...they were in fine spiritual condition as far as they were concerned...they were superior to everyone else as far as they knew. Over time the leaders made up their own laws that superseded Gods law. Don't eat with gentiles, don't touch gentiles, gentiles weren't allowed to be too near the temple. All of these laws had erected a wall of separation and that was not what their "calling" demanded. They were called to be a light to the nations, not exclude the nations. Jesus talked about that too. He said that believers were to let their light shine before men so that men would see it and would glorify God. Not, hide the light like the leaders had done and convinced their followers to do. See, that's OT stuff fulfilled too..."the people that sit in darkness have seen a great light". They didn't see the light of God with any help from the leaders, did they?

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

myelaine

https://www.nehemiaswall.com/nehemia-gordon-name-god

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

myelaine

dear Isambard Crater...

Paul was able to convince jewish people that Jesus was the Messiah using the OT years after the events. Because he had to defend the gospel publicly they likely had their own arguments as to why Jesus wasn't the Messiah.
That's the question the bible answers. Is Jesus the Messiah that was expected?...there is no argument from any of the jews as to His existence or His miracles.
The OT prophets spoke about a man who would come to REDEEM israel (the people group). Paul was able to show from the OT who the redeemer was, how he would redeem, why he needed to redeem and what manner the redemption would be ie: immediate physical or eternal spiritual.
So, I guess my question to you is: are you looking at the OT to simply believe that Jesus existed? (Because they wont help you believe He existed any more than the NT will) besides, like james said, " even the demons believe." (james 2:19)
No, searching the scriptures to find belief is futile imo. BUT, if you look at yourself and believe you need someone to redeem you from sin, then the bible will show you who that redeemer is. Paul could convince opposing jews in his day that Jesus was the promised redeemer, and the same scriptures can convince you too.
If you don't think you are a sinner in need of redemption then what is the point in "believing"...really?

love michelle