Posts by beroea

What do you consider to be the most stupid rules or tradition of the JW lives? I’m thinking about any kind of rule or regulative that only has one answer to the questions WHY:

“I don’t know why it’s just the way we do and have done for a long time”

In my case one could be the “name plate” to carry personal at the summer convention. It’s expected to have it on all the time also on the way to and from the convention. If you come without it you are consider as a bad guy. I thought that if some interested ones came to have a look at what the JW was about they should be met by understanding and welcome. But they are looked at with suspiciousness.

What about you?

7

JW reformation or revolution

by beroea in

jw
friends

jw reformation or revolution.

a lot of us are seeing all the untruth of the borg.

all the nonsense of the chronology and existents of a religious authorities like the fds/gb.

beroea

How do you stay and listen to the talks in the congregations without running out creaming. And mayby more important about going to have talks in the front: How do you say the lies with your mouth?

beroea

7

JW reformation or revolution

by beroea in

jw
friends

jw reformation or revolution.

a lot of us are seeing all the untruth of the borg.

all the nonsense of the chronology and existents of a religious authorities like the fds/gb.

beroea

So what the h... we are going to face future and dead anyway

7

JW reformation or revolution

by beroea in

jw
friends

jw reformation or revolution.

a lot of us are seeing all the untruth of the borg.

all the nonsense of the chronology and existents of a religious authorities like the fds/gb.

beroea

Agree. But then what's your purpose of posting

7

JW reformation or revolution

by beroea in

jw
friends

jw reformation or revolution.

a lot of us are seeing all the untruth of the borg.

all the nonsense of the chronology and existents of a religious authorities like the fds/gb.

beroea

still the question is "why do we fight"?

BEROEA

7

JW reformation or revolution

by beroea in

jw
friends

jw reformation or revolution.

a lot of us are seeing all the untruth of the borg.

all the nonsense of the chronology and existents of a religious authorities like the fds/gb.

beroea

JW reformation or revolution

Please consider the following. A lot of us are seeing all the untruth of the Borg. All the nonsense of the chronology and existents of a religious authorities like the FDS/GB. Meanwhile most of us seems to choose the revolution way. We want to break down all what we see as wrong doctrines and doings. The shadows of those things are so big that it almost hides us so we just react against it and hits back. Many have bad experiences and anger and fighting back is what we do to survive. We try to break down the JW shadow to get a look at the light. Maybe it was easier just to move on and walk after light instead of staying at the same place and fight the shadows of our JW background because we think the light is only behind the JW. Breaking down the JW seems to some to be the only way to find light. That’s a hard way of living and maybe even impossible. Breaking down doesn’t automatic means that something better will turn up from the ruins. So we risk fighting all our life never finding peace and love and for sure no balance in life and trust of other human being.

I don’t think that kind of revolution is a good way. And if we are telling the revolution story to a normal JW he/she will almost reject the talk and story. Breaking down as a main goal is only leaving people naked and confused about “What so to believe or do? I think I know this kind of reaction, because I’m still inside and active as elder. My family needs more time.

Back in Europe – my home – we did almost 500 year ago had what we called “The Reformation”. Maybe you in USA don’t know much of that history. In a large scale the situation at that time was similar to the JW of today. The Pope and the head of the Catholic Church was almost in the same role or position as the GB we know all to well. The head of the Catholic Church was saying it was the channel and the month of God and the only one to tell others about the word of God and to interpret The Bible. They were the authorities and if people was asking or saying anything else they was facing a punishment fast and with no mercy. So you see - if you look at the JW system - history repeats.

Martin Luther was the beginning of new way of thinking back in the first part of 1500 century. All Christians was equal and Jesus was the head of every man. No channel was necessary. Salvation was a matter of the work of Jesus. No mans work was enough to get salvation. All men were sinners to God no matter his good works. Salvation was a gift to believers of Christ.

The intension was good but times went on and the history repeats. All what Luther was against - about a religious leadership between man and God - was build up again only with new cloches. We know from the reformation that also much more radical movement began to act. They were named The Dreamers or The Rebaptisers. Later on many of those went to the new world USA and were later on organized as Baptisers, Advertisers and many more churches of USA nearly 200 years ago. They were also the sources of JW.

Even the history of the Reformation in many ways just repeat the same falls the main purpose was positive. Maybe we could learn a little from that history. Go and read a little about the reformation in Europe and discover the similar situation to the Borg of today.

Even we are little angry (sometimes very angry) I think keeping the idea of reformation is better than revolution and destroying. That doesn’t meant we should stop talking about what is wrong. But it must never take the whole picture. If we want other people to listen we must also – and ever more – tell about the right things.

If we want to reach the heart of “ordinary” JWs we must tell good things and point out good human values. Then they will be able with own eyes to see all the wrong things about the blind thinking of the normal JW live. We must act as good people with real concerns about other people and the situation they are facing. When I take a look around in my own congregation and try to look behind all the faces I see a lot of people really needing care and understanding. If I just go and tell them about all the lies and in a rush try to break down all beliefs they have had for a whole life it will do no good (and I will face serious problems my self). They will either don’t listen or they will be very sad, confused and naked. It will only leave them without internal power to change their own situation. I don’t think I have the right to do that. I can only try to show them another way of living. More clarity and more respect to each other. I try to convince the brothers and sisters that they do count as individual. I try to build up personal power in the brothers and sister to be more independent of human systems (read JW organisation/GB). If I am able to get them feel strong enough to start thinking that’s at good start.

But they will only start thinking if they fell strong to stand a little alone and be able to say as Luther said in front of all the religious authorities back in Worms in Germany in 1521 “I don’t consider the Pope and the church organisation as a legal religious authority or channel between man and God. They have many times prove them self to be wrong and false. You must convince me with the word of God or with logic - elsewhere I will stay on my ground. “Ich kann nicht anders” - so help me God, Amen”.

If you change word “Pope” with “GB” and “church organisation” with “Jehovah’s visible organisation” it’s almost the same here 500 year later even it’s in a smaller scalar.

I do know that I’m unable to change the JW as a hole. But I hope a least people close to me will open their eyes. As long being an elder that’s the way I try to live and act. I do know that’s a little naive in the long run. I hope my family, wife and children, in near future are ready to make some decisions, buts that not the situation right now. I have patience to wait a little longer.

So revolution is telling what is WRONG. Reformation is telling what is RIGHT as well. Paul was telling the same in Romans 12:21 “Conquering the evil with the good” So please think about building up went you are breaking down. Lets find a balance.

Beroea
Europe, August 2001

Barbour and the salvation from Christ

by beroea in

jw
friends

barbour and the salvation from christ.

i still do some research about the history of the jw mainly in the beginning of the days of russell.

does anybody have some background information or sources of why barbour suddenly refuses to accept salvation by the death of christ?

beroea

Barbour and the salvation from Christ

I still do some research about the history of the JW mainly in the beginning of the days of Russell. Does anybody have some background information or sources of why Barbour suddenly refuses to accept salvation by the death of Christ? Why so big effort in counting dates of his return if you don’t believe in salvation.

What did going on in the head of Barbour around 1878 when Barbour and Russell split? Please respond - also you Alan F (you seams to have some knowledge about this subject).

Beroea

14

Change in WTS doctrine under way!

by biblexaminer in

jw
friends

i posted a discussion on the bible research page with the same subject name.

it involves the 'quiet' new doctrine of the co, and i am sure he's not alone.

beroea

Good post. You said "recently af CO" was given a talk about the subject. Could you say when and where. Is there a print of the speak?

Bereoa

11

The Great War!

by Kent in

jw
friends

either we like it or not, were in a war.

an information-war; where the ones wanting to expose the watchtower are on the one side of the frontline the watchtower and their henchmen on the other.

in any war some kind of an intelligence service is essential, and this war is no different than any other war.

beroea

hej kent - min norske ven

Så du behøver soldater, men tillige spioner bag fjendens linier. Så længe du holder dig til "proven facts" har jeg al sympati for din mission. Jeg selv er ældste i Scandinavien og modtager en del information. Det meste af denne information er dog efter min mening total ligegyldige og praktiske ting, men engang imellem "popper' der også mere vidtgående information op.

Jeg ved dog ikke hvor længe min ældstestatus bliver ved, da jeg stærkt overvejer at gå af. Grunden er forkastelse af kronologi og myndighedsberettigelse af GB.

Jeg er enig i at "facts can do no harm to real truth"

bereoa