Posts by Bibleboy

156

Biblical PROOF that Jesus Christ IS GOD

by Bibleboy in

before i get started, my name is mark whitmore, 20, i live in vancouver, canada, and i am a follower of the way, a true christian, not a jw.

if you reply, please post who you are, how old and what you believe so that i know where you are coming from.

thanks.. now down to business.. strongs' hebrew and greek online:.

Bibleboy

there's nothing wrong with quoting somebody that you are in agreement and unity with.

156

Biblical PROOF that Jesus Christ IS GOD

by Bibleboy in

before i get started, my name is mark whitmore, 20, i live in vancouver, canada, and i am a follower of the way, a true christian, not a jw.

if you reply, please post who you are, how old and what you believe so that i know where you are coming from.

thanks.. now down to business.. strongs' hebrew and greek online:.

Bibleboy

Read 1st Thessalonians 5:23

God's "Image" = Body Soul and Spirit

Besides, the words to concentrate on are:
let "US" make man in "OUR" image.

You are ONE Pomegranate, but you are body, soul, and spirit.
You are ONE jdubla, but you are body, soul, and spirit.

also we FIND this regarding sanctification:

WHO is the One Who sanctifies?

FATHER
1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

SON
Acts 26:14-18
14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic,[1] `Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'
15 "Then I asked, `Who are you, Lord?' "`I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied.
16 `Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you.
17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them
18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

HOLY GHOST
1 Peter 1:1-2
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

If Trinity doesn't exist, we have a problem don't we?! Unless of course you could explain that!?

Doctrine of the Trinity
By Dr. Ed DeVries

Dr. Ed DeVries is an evangelist out of Shady Acres Baptist Church, Houston, Texas. Brother DeVries is also the President of the School of Biblical & Theological Studies, 310 West Prien Lake Road #584, Lake Charles, LA 70601, 1-800-516-7322 ext. 1611. School of Biblical & Theological Studies (SB&TS) is to provide a vehicle by which individuals called of God into Christian service may reach their goals while receiving a solid, conservative, biblically based education. SB&TS offers diploma through doctorate in the fields of Bible, Ministry, Theology, Religious Education, and Biblical Counseling through a challenging series of home study courses.

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Since God is a triune being, theologians use the word Trinity to represent the complex doctrine through which man comprehends His existence. Since the word Trinity is not found anywhere in the received text or in it's offspring (the Authorized Version and other biblical translations derived from the received text), many argue that the doctrine of the Trinity is not a Biblical one. However, when a person comes to understand the theory that is embodied in the terminology they can not help but find proof of the Trinity throughout the Bible. The doctrine of the Trinity is believed by all Christian groups. Some groups profess to be Christian and do not believe in the Trinity, however, none of these groups are truly Christian because their various perversions of the gospel cause them to have, "a form of godliness but denying the power thereof" (II Timothy 3:5). The Bible went on to say we should have nothing to do with them. Why? Because they are not Christians. This does not mean we can not love them and share the gospel with them, it simply means we are not to fellowship with them as brothers in Christ. The concept of the Trinity is the very concept of the existence of God, and since God reveals himself to his children, it only makes sense that all Christian churches would believe in and defend the doctrine of the Trinity.

Since the word Trinity is used to represent God as a triune being, what is triune? Noah Webster defined the word triune to mean, "three in one." This means that God, a singular being, exists in a plural manner. This is why the term Godhead is often used in scripture (Acts 7:19, Romans 1:20, Collosians 2:9, etc.). God's very name implies His triune existence. The Hebrew name for God used in all known manuscripts is ELOHIM, so Genesis 1:1 could read, "In the beginning ELOHIM created the heaven and the earth." The word ELOHIM means three in one. The word ELOHIM has both a singular and a plural usage in Hebrew, uniquely, the two usages are always simultaneous. The word ELOHIM can never be used in the plural form without implying the singular and vice-versa. Note also, that all Hebrew letters have a numeric value, all Hebrew words also have value. ELOHIM is an interesting word in that it has two values, three and one.

The Trinity Illustrated in Nature
It is no wonder that when God, ELOHIM, said in Genesis 1:26, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness," that He then created man to be a triune being. Just as God is composed of three, so is man. Man is composed of a body, a soul, and a spirit. We all know man to be one being, not three, in spite of his triune composition. The body is separate from the soul which is separate from the spirit, however they still make one man.

Man was only one of God's many creations. God is the creator of the entire universe. Just as God created man in His own image, he had also created the universe in the same fashion. The building block of the universe is the atom. Any object in the universe when broken down to it's smallest form has been discovered to be nothing more than a complexly designed series of atoms. The atom is a triune object. It is composed of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Each part of the atom is independent of the other two, yet it remains only one object, a proton can not exist without an accompanying neutron and electron and vice-versa.

We understand ourselves, how we exist. Through science we are learning of our environment and how the things around us exist. So man has always understood the concept of the Trinity, and this understanding is what helps us to understand the existence of God.

The Trinity Illustrated in the Bible
The concept of God being triune can be illustrated in the Bible just as easily as it can be illustrated in nature. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." This shows God to exist in two forms. The word God in this passage refers to ELOHIM, or to God as a whole. The word Word refers to God the Son, who is Jesus Christ. This is shown in verse fourteen, "and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory...as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Having established that God is a singular being with a plural existence, and understanding that the term "Word" (capitalized to represent deity) in John chapter one refers to God the Son who is the Lord Jesus Christ, let us read I John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, The Word, and The Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Thus we have proof: His name ELOHIM (meaning three in one) is proof, the design of nature is proof, and in scripture there is proof. God is a triune being composed of God the Father, God the Word or God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost who is often referred to as the Holy Spirit. They are each independently divine, they are each a separate aspect to the overall personality of God, yet they are combined to make one singular being.

How The Members of the Trinity Function
The members of the Trinity work together in complete unity, totally dependant and yet totally interdependence of each other. God the Father is the sovereign ruler of the entire universe, everything operates because of and to fulfill his eternal plan. God the Son takes this plan out of eternity and brings it into time, administering the various aspects of the plan. God the Holy Spirit makes this eternal plan, the will of God, real to men. These functions can be illustrated many times in the Bible.

The Function of the Members of the Trinity in Creation
In his omnipotence, God the Father had already created the universe somewhere in eternity past before the existence of time as we know it. Even though the universe did not physically exist in time, it did in eternity (remember, eternity has no concept of time). God knew He would create everything, and in eternity already had ( our future is already God's past). The theory of omnipotence and God's eternal existence could not be adequately understood if I were to write a million pages on the subject, so I will not. It will be left to the reader to research the subject of God's omnipotence and eternal existence independently of this paper (it is of course assumed that all who read this work will already possess adequate understanding of these concepts). Let us just summarily say that God the father had willed and fulfilled creation somewhere in eternity past. This is why Genesis 1:1 says, "In the Beginning (present tense) God created (past tense) the heaven and the earth." God was doing in time what He had already done in eternity.

God the Son brought creation into time. The creation had been the will of God for all eternity, all that was needed to bring that eternal reality into the reality of time was the spoken word. John chapter one teaches that God the son is the Word, and verse three says, "all things were made by him", meaning the Word who is God the Son. The word was given in Genesis 1:3, "and God said........" This spoken word of God the Son introduced the Father's eternal plan to time.

The Holy Spirit was waiting upon the face of the earth to fulfill the Word, this is found in Genesis 1:2. As soon as Jesus spoke the word, the Spirit fulfilled the word, making it real to man.

The Function of the Members of the Trinity in the Old Testament
Just as in creation, it is God the Father who has sovereignly determined the course of the universe in eternity, God the Son who as the Word brings the will of God into time, and it is the Holy Spirit who makes God's will real to man.

In God the Father's perspective, Noah had built the Ark before ever the earth was formed, so also had Moses and the Children of Israel crossed the Red Sea, etc. This is why God in Genesis 3:15 was able to offer salvation to Adam, He knew in eternity past that Man would sin and that Jesus would be the atonement for sin (read Revelation 13:8) so Adam placing his (present tense) faith in Christ's future act that, God had known about before the fact, resulted in salvation. Why? Because God knew it would happen so it was as good as done.

It was God the Son who brought the will of God into time. Throughout the Old Testament we read: "The Word of the Lord came unto Abram." (Genesis 15:1), "according to the Word of the Lord, as the Lord commanded Moses" (Numbers 3:51), "The Lord revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the Word of the Lord." (I Samuel 3:21), " The Word of the Lord came unto Nathan" (II Samuel 7:4), "The Word of the Lord came unto Solomon" (I Kings 6:11), etc., etc., etc.

It was then the Holy Spirit who enabled these men to fulfill the Word which God the Son had given them. A good illustration is the story of Samson. Judges 14:6 says, "and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him." Thus, the will of the Father revealed by the Word of the Son was made real to Samson when the Holy Spirit empowered him to fulfill it.

In the Old Testament era, the Holy Spirit did not continually abide with the believer as He does now. Instead, the Spirit came upon a man in order that he may be empowered to do God's will, then the Spirit would leave when the work was completed or when the man sinned. This is why we read that Samson, "Wist not that the Lord had departed from him" in Judges 16:20. This is also the reason King David prayed, "Take not thy Holy Spirit from me" in Psalms 51:11.

The Function of the Members of the Trinity in the New Testament
The primary activity of God in the New Testament was to provide for man's redemption and establish Local Churches to replace Israel as God's ambassadors to the world. (Israel is still God's chosen nation, they still enjoy the privileges of being God's chosen. Unfortunately, Israel failed in it's task in two ways, the first was in rejecting the Messiah and the second has been in failing to lead gentiles to the Messiah. The creation of the church does not infringe upon God's promises to Israel as some Christians believe, it was however God's way to in grace bestow upon us unworthy gentiles the blessing, i.e. the blessing of preaching the gospel and seeing people saved, after Israel choose not to take advantage of the opportunity.)

God the Father, knowing man would one day sin, had established redemption in eternity past. This is why Revelation 13:8 says that Christ was, "slain before the foundation of the world." This is once again how He was able to justify Adam in the garden, and this is how the Old Testament saints were saved. Jesus brought the plan into time when He fulfilled His work on the cross (John chapters 19 and beyond). The Holy Spirit makes redemption real to men as He reveals the gospel to their soul and quickens their previously dead spirit (I Peter 3:18).

God had also established the Church in eternity past, just as He has established His entire work. The Son brought the Church into time when He spoke the words, " Upon this rock I will build my Church" in Matthew 16:18. The Holy Spirit has made God's will real to men by empowering them with special gifts to fulfill the work of the Church (read I Corinthians chapters twelve through fourteen).

The Function of the Members of the Trinity Today
God the Father is the Sovereign ruler over all the affairs of the universe. He is the true standard of Holiness and the judge of all that is. God the Son is the Savior, the one through whom all men may receive justification before God. Jesus also acts as an advocate to the Father on behalf of the believer. "There is...one mediator...Christ Jesus", I Timothy 2:5. Charles Wesley best defined the present day role and relationship of God the Father and God the Son when he penned the classic hymn, Arise My Soul Arise:

Arise my soul ,arise! Shake off thy guilty fear's;

The bleeding sacrifice in my behalf appears;

Before the throne my surety stands-My name is written on His hands.

He ever lives above, for me to intercede;

His all redeeming love, His precious blood to plead:

His blood atoned for all our race, and sprinkles now the throne of grace.

Five bleeding wounds He bears, Received on Calvary;

They pour effectual prayers, They strongly plead for me:

" Forgive him, O forgive," they cry, " Nor let that ransomed sinner die!"

The Father hears Him pray, His dear anointed one;

He can not turn away The presence of His Son:

His Spirit answers to the Blood, and tells me I am born of God.

My God is reconciled, His pardoning voice I hear;

He owns me for His child, I can no longer fear:

With confidence I now draw nigh, And "Father, Abba, Father!" cry.

The Holy Spirit is currently engaged in the work of enabling believers to fulfil the work of the Church (I Corinthians 12-14), empowering men to preach the gospel (Acts 1:8), quickening the spirit of repentant sinners (I Peter 3:18, I Corinthians 2:10), keeping the believer secure in Christ until the Second Coming (i.e. the eternal security of the believer, Ephesians 1:12-14), comforting the believer (John 14-15), being the very essence of Christ indwelling the believer (John 14:16-18), and finally, the Spirit never forsakes the believer (I Corinthians 6:15-20).

The Modern Day Work of the Members of the Trinity in Prayer
Prayer is the primary expression of the relationship between God and the saved man, so it is to be given it's own sub-heading.

God the Father answers all of our prayers, hence we are taught to pray to, "Our Father which art in Heaven" (Matthew 6:9). He answers our prayers on behalf of, or because of our relationship with His Son, hence we pray in Jesus name. "Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, He will give it you" (John 16:23). And we pray through the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 26:41) revealing our needs to the Father with the help of the Spirit, "we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." (Acts 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit could correctly be referred to as our prayer partner.

Conclusion
The proof of God's triune existence has been plainly presented along with the mechanics of the doctrine of the Trinity emphasizing God's relationship to His creation (primarily man). Unfortunately this does not even begin to expound on the deep truths of God. Multiplied volumes have attempted such an undertaking, however, the subject is so deep that all attempts will fail in revealing all of it's depths. It will not be until we get to heaven and we finally see God face to face that we will comprehend the subject in it's entirety. Perhaps the best definition which man has given for the Trinity is found in the writings of Dr. John F. Walvoord, the president of Dallas Theological Seminary, "God is one numerically, He subsists in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit who are equal in eternity, power and glory, each possessing all the divine attributes and yet having properties which distinguish them within the unity of the Trinity."

The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all, evermore, AMEN.

aliC,

156

Biblical PROOF that Jesus Christ IS GOD

by Bibleboy in

before i get started, my name is mark whitmore, 20, i live in vancouver, canada, and i am a follower of the way, a true christian, not a jw.

if you reply, please post who you are, how old and what you believe so that i know where you are coming from.

thanks.. now down to business.. strongs' hebrew and greek online:.

Bibleboy

I have not avoided ANYTHING. I have simply just not responded yet. I am having a laugh to see how carried away YOU get. Joke's on you!

Nor am I a JW. I am far from it. JW's dont' believe in the Trinity. And they also believe that the WTS is God's appointed organisation. I don't believe that and I believe that the NWT is NOT Superior to any other translation. I am not a JW, but a blood bought born again Christian.

I haven't been using skills to debate, I just haven't been debating. I've been listening. I told you that.

Pomegranate> you used scripture that said the Comforter was the Holy Spirit. And then another scripture to say it was Jesus Christ. Both scriptures say that they are different Persons, yet it is the same title. How then can you disprove the Trinity, Especially when the second scripture you quoted (Isaiah 9:6) supported the Trinity again by calling Jesus Christ, the Everlasting Father.

***
>Isaiah just defined Jesus Christ as the Counselor. There
>is no third, except in the way Christ was speaking.
***

does that make John's account null and void JUST because YOU say, "ISAIAH SAID!"? No, It makes it that more important. You may not discard scripture to your liking. This may be a harsh word for you.
Oswald Chambers writes in his devotional, MY UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST, August 17th. "Have you ever heard the Master say a hard word? If you have not, I question whether you have heard Him say anything."
I agree withf Chambers in that EVEN Conviction of the Holy Spirit is a harsh word.

But anyway, you can't divide Scripture against itself, otherwise you stand on Satan's sandy foundation and will not stand forever.

Isaiah 40:8
8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever."

***
>Christ is speaking figuratively of himself in the third person. It's
>a common figure of speech, refering to oneself as somebody else.
>Christ even says he has been speaking figuratively to his disciples,
>in these very discussions about the Couselor/Holy Spirit.
***

Of COURSE! How could I have missed that... silly me! so when Jesus said in John 14:6 that He was the Way the Truth and the Life, and that nobody could go to the Father but by Him, He was ONLY SPEAKING FIGURATIVELY! I SEE THE LIGHT!!!!!!

THE LIGHT OF SATAN AFTER A CUT AND PASTE BELIEF! Don't take things out of context PLEASE... we'll waste less time...

And IF that were true, then HOW could this Counselor appear in TWO places at once. Notice that the Father is ALSO present.

Matthew 3:16-17
Mark 1:9-11
Luke 3:21-22

Figuratively, eh?

Do your Homework! And may God bless you with a fruitful life.

In Love and Honesty,

and in Jesus' Precious Name. Amen.

156

Biblical PROOF that Jesus Christ IS GOD

by Bibleboy in

before i get started, my name is mark whitmore, 20, i live in vancouver, canada, and i am a follower of the way, a true christian, not a jw.

if you reply, please post who you are, how old and what you believe so that i know where you are coming from.

thanks.. now down to business.. strongs' hebrew and greek online:.

Bibleboy

I am here. I am just seeing where this is going before I make my reply. Doesn't really matter who you are, God loves you anyway. And I am responding, just not as promptly as some of you demand. Funny how human nature works eh?

Funny, EVERYONE has COMPLETELY avoided the topic of THE ROCK.
Funny, EVERYONE has COMPLETELY avoided the topic of the PERSONAGE of the Holy Spirit.

I used greek and hebrew in both.

question: are you committing isagesis or exegesis?

question: are you getting your arguements from God's Word, (the bible)
or are you getting them from the watchtower?
(or elsewhere for that matter?)

156

Biblical PROOF that Jesus Christ IS GOD

by Bibleboy in

before i get started, my name is mark whitmore, 20, i live in vancouver, canada, and i am a follower of the way, a true christian, not a jw.

if you reply, please post who you are, how old and what you believe so that i know where you are coming from.

thanks.. now down to business.. strongs' hebrew and greek online:.

Bibleboy

Peace be with you All. Maranatha! Hallelujah!

THANK YOU HAIRDOG for following a simple request of mine.

this was the request:

>>before I get started, My name is Mark Whitmore, 20, I live in

>>Vancouver, Canada, and I am a Follower of The WAY, a True

>>Christian, not a JW. If you reply, please post who you are, how old

>>and what you believe so that I know where you are coming from.

>>Thanks.

This I know about Hairdog: He's a Native Californian senior citizen, and mail who's been a student of Koine Greek for some 25 years.

This proves his comprehension of reading and thus his ability to READ it properly; to exegete scriptures properly.

And until such time when you people respond with your information as such, I will hold off on ALL replies, even though there is SOOO much I wish to share with you all.

All in Love, and admonishing in the Truth.

In Jesus' Precious Name,

156

Biblical PROOF that Jesus Christ IS GOD

by Bibleboy in

before i get started, my name is mark whitmore, 20, i live in vancouver, canada, and i am a follower of the way, a true christian, not a jw.

if you reply, please post who you are, how old and what you believe so that i know where you are coming from.

thanks.. now down to business.. strongs' hebrew and greek online:.

Bibleboy

I don't know what god YOU believe in, but I believe in the God of the Holy Bible (not NWT because I think it's garbage... adding in or leaving out words that aren't in the original texts or just plain changing what it says and I can give you lots of examples).
Let's examine this a bit. It'll have to be short cos I got church this evening!

>>Interesting that you think Jesus Christ is God. I personally am not >>sure what to believe due to the inherent complexity and apparant >>contradictory/ambiguous nature of the new testament.

I don't think that Jesus Christ is God, I know that... that's what the bible says. He's not God the Father nor is He God the Holy Ghost, but He is God. I believe in something described as the Trinity. ONE GODHEAD made up of three coexisting coeternal Persons identified in scripture, namely, FATHER SON AND HG (HS).

Anyway, did you create God or did God create you? Then who do you think is smarter? Therefore are you supposed to understand your creator 100% ?

One thing I wonder is how Jesus could have resurrected himself...? I imagine that it could only happen if he didn't 'die' which is not possible if the prophecies were to be fulfilled.

READ SCRIPTURE BOY.... maybe I'll have the references for you after church tonight...

29

Which Bible to get?

by Kat_ in

i was just wondering: never in my life have i owned (or even read) a bible other than the nwt.

i really wish to study the bible but really do not wish to use this version.

after seeing the plethora of bibles out there i was wondering if there is any person here who can give me an un-biased opinion on which bible to get.

Bibleboy

Dear Kat_,

if at all you would like to include the address of your church or Kingdom Hall, I will gladly send it to you C/O that building or organization. Just get me the address for that place and you will be able to pick it up there. I understand how you feel about your safety and security, so your church addy should not be a problem. Or I can have it sent to your nearest PO BOX and you can pick it up there. I insist, because you should not have to pay for the Word of God...

!!! BECAUSE THE WORD OF GOD HAS ALREADY PAID YOUR DEBTS FOR YOU !!!

SOMEBODY SAY AMEN! Hallelujaweh!

anyway... I have ICQ... 34048493
MSN & email: [email protected]
And Satan is under my feet because of what the Lord has done at Calvary. PTL!

Anyway...

GodBless,
Agape Love in Christ Jesus of Nazareth,

-Mark Whitmore

PS... you can ask anyone of my friends... I am harmless... even if I DID want to stalk you i don't really have the time or the money to do so... I am going to Bible College in Saskatchewan this fall...

14

Could you please read this?

by ethan in

this may take a while to explain, but if you read through and respond i'd appreciate it.

i became best friends with a jw about two years ago.

we were the best of friends.

Bibleboy

Ethan,

My name is Mark and I am also protestant... If you get this message anytime soon, I want you to read this message I posted in the forum BIBLE RESEARCH:
Topic: Biblical PROOF that Jesus Christ IS GOD

Bibleboy
Newbie
Canada
Posts: 2
Since: Aug 19, 2001

This should put your sister back on track... or at least help to...

but here's more for ya.

2 Corinthians 6:13-18
13 As a fair exchange--I speak as to my children--open wide your hearts also.
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[1] ? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?
16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."[2]
17 "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."[3]
18 "I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."[4]

Footnotes
1. [15] Greek Beliar, a variant of Belial
2. [16] Lev. 26:12; Jer. 32:38; Ezek. 37:27
3. [17] Isaiah 52:11; Ezek. 20:34,41
4. [18] 2 Samuel 7:14; 7:8

if you want or need more information, please don't hestiate to email me at:

[email protected]

Just let me know...

In His Service,
agape love in Christ our Rock,

156

Biblical PROOF that Jesus Christ IS GOD

by Bibleboy in

before i get started, my name is mark whitmore, 20, i live in vancouver, canada, and i am a follower of the way, a true christian, not a jw.

if you reply, please post who you are, how old and what you believe so that i know where you are coming from.

thanks.. now down to business.. strongs' hebrew and greek online:.

Bibleboy

before I get started, My name is Mark Whitmore, 20, I live in Vancouver, Canada, and I am a Follower of The WAY, a True Christian, not a JW. If you reply, please post who you are, how old and what you believe so that I know where you are coming from. Thanks.

Now down to business.

Strongs' Hebrew and Greek ONLINE:
http://blueletterbible.org/

ONLINE BIBLE
http://bible.gospelcom.net/

While the doctrine of Trinity is "confusing" to the carnal, or unsaved, it is simply one of God's mysteries to the Spiritual, or saved.

Question: Do we know all the mysteries of God? If you answered 'yes', then you could probably draw an accurate picture of God's face, but how could you have seen it and not have died? (Exodus 33:19-23)

Colossions 2:2-5 (KJV)
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

The JWs' hearts are NOT comforted if 'IT' (whatever 'IT' happens to be) has not been REASONED in their minds. The JW's say that the doctrine of the Trinity is confusing because they like to REASON things; even Scripture; and their hearts won't be comforted until such time when it IS reasoned.
I, on the other hand, READ Scripture, not REASON Scripture. Amen! I like to READ and BELIEVE these following Scriptures:

(this is why I do my best not to reason):

Proverbs 3:5-6 (KJV)
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Romans 11:33-36 (KJV)
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

So, why can't we just stop trying to use OUR HUMAN intellect in comprehending God's nature and just accept the Word of the Living God. Amen!

EVEN in the New World Translation, Titus 1:3-4 says that both God ('G') and Jesus Christ are the Saviour ('S').

How can this be, if, according to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, God is not Trinity? Could it be that the Watchtower IS infact a false prophet organization?

"Mark," you say, "Jehovah God is the Saviour but He is the Saviour through Jesus Christ who is NOT God."

I beg to differ on these grounds:

Isaiah 45:15, 21-22 (KJV)
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Acts 4:10-12 (KJV)
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So, there is ONLY ONE SAVIOUR, yet Titus 1:3; 1:4 remain.

What will the Watchtower do? Chuck their current NWT and come out with a REVISED NWT... or will they REPRINT the NWT and expegate the book of Titus?

If this isn't enough for you, then how about this:

Isaiah 44:8 (KJV)
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

That LAST bit... "there is no God; I know not any." the word "God" in Most other english translations the word is "Rock"
I particularily like the phrasing in the Contemporary English Version for this verse:

Isaiah 44:8 (CEV)
8 Don't tremble with fear! Didn't I tell you long ago? Didn't you hear me? I alone am God -- no one else is a mighty rock.

In this case we go to the Hebrew... in Strongs' Hebrew Concordance it is Hebrew # 06697 tsuwr {tsoor} or tsur {tsoor}.
It now makes sense. God is not only comparing Himself with the strength of a Rock, but he's declaring himself that Rock. But wait a second, if God the Father (Jehovah God) is the Rock, (not knowing ANY other) then how can Jesus Christ be the Rock?

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

There you have it. Jesus IS God Almighty. Anyone differ?

That's 2 parts of the 3 that form the Godhead of the Trinity.

Ephesians 4:30 (KJV) (similar in the NWT)
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Let's look at the Proper Context!

Ephesians 4:30 (CEV)
Don't make God's Spirit sad. The Spirit makes you sure that someday you will be free from your sins.

Strongs' Greek # 3076 lupeo {loo-peh'-o} . So, when it says, "don't grieve the Spirit of God", it's NOT saying, don't cry over the Holy Spirit... the verse wouldn't really make a whole lot of sense. It is saying that you shouldn't make actions or words that would upset God.
if you haven't looked into the Greek yet, let me spread it on the table for you: from 3077; TDNT - 4:313,540; v

AV - be sorrowful 6, grieve 6, make sorry 6, be sorry 3, sorrow 3,
cause grief 1, be in heaviness 1; 26

1) to make sorrowful
2) to affect with sadness, cause grief, to throw into sorrow
3) to grieve, offend
4) to make one uneasy, cause him a scruple

The Holy Spirit is a person, thus completing the Godhead of the Trinity. ONE GOD, THREE CO-ETERNAL, CO-EQUAL PERSONS, NAMELY FATHER, SON, HOLY GHOST, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE... YET STILL ONE GOD... ONE GOD ONE FAITH ONE BAPTISTM!!! SOMEBODY SAY AMEN!!! HALLELUJAWEH!!!

I got LOTS more Scripture.

IF you reply, don't reason! Only read!

-In Jesus' Precious name.
-Mark Whitmore

29

Which Bible to get?

by Kat_ in

i was just wondering: never in my life have i owned (or even read) a bible other than the nwt.

i really wish to study the bible but really do not wish to use this version.

after seeing the plethora of bibles out there i was wondering if there is any person here who can give me an un-biased opinion on which bible to get.

Bibleboy

dear Kat_

My name is Mark Whitmore from Vancouver. I will personally send you a FREE New International Version.

Until then you may log onto this:

http://bible.gospelcom.net

(11 english translations)
(14 Languages)
(33 translations in total)