Posts by bjc2012

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

I am not trying to insult you. Your statement that what Isaiah wrote 2500 years ago has no meaning to us says to me that you are limiting Jehovah to knowing only the immediate future and/or not being interested in what happens to us today. That's why I said what I did.

Yes, I agree that MDS is the one Isaiah refers to. It is something that I cannot prove to you unless you accept that Isaiah has a modern-day fulfillment.

I can find no scripture which shows that Israel ever fulfilled verses 2 and 3 of Isaiah 54 which reads: "Make the place of your tent more spacious. And let them stretch out the tent cloths of your grand tabernacle. Do not hold back. Lengthen out your tent cords, and make those tent pins of yours strong. For to the right and to the left you will break forth, and your own offspring will take possession even of the nations, and they will inhabit even the desolated cities." Israel is supposed to have great growth. What we learn about Israel from the Bible shows that she continued to get smaller and smaller as nations took over land that she had been given. In fact, when Isaiah wrote his message, Assyria had taken the 10-tribe kingdom into captivity and only Judah was left.

In the first century, Israel was dispersed to the nations and has not yet recovered. When did they ever take possession of nations? Will these verses be fulfilled today or are they just words on paper?

Jehovah assures us that his word "would not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain seccess in that for which I have sent it." Isaiah 55:11

bjc

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

bjc2012

Larc,

You must not know very much about Jehovah. He can have information written down 2500 or even 5000 years in advance and fulfill it just as it is written. He can have it fulfilled partially at the time of its being written, then have a complete fulfillment later, however He wishes it to be done. He can have as many fulfillments as He wishes. He know humans and He is aware that one period of human existence is not different than another. Humans are humans no matter when the live. Additionally, time is under His control, not the other way around.

The Woman is Israel. Jehovah is spoken of as being her husbandly owner in verse 5 of Isaiah chapter 54. She is spoken of as having been disciplined in verses 7 and 8, but Jehovah has had mercy on her and now she is able to enjoy the blessing outlined in verses 11-17. Can you prove this was fulfilled in its entirety upon natural Israel? If not, then is it yet to be fulfilled upon still yet another Israel.

bjc

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

bjc2012

larc,

Isaiah 49:1-6 applies to a modern-day deliverer for modern-day Israel, in addition this one will also be a light to the gentiles. Of course, Israel will reject him, therefore, he will go to the gentiles who will accept him and consequently replace Israel. Sounds like a repeat? Well, it is!

bjc

32

Jesus second coming in the first century

by Jr in

this discussion will be quite extensive.

so, i have broken it up in to subtopics.

it will be shared by myself and associates in the faith.

bjc2012

Trevor,

If the bible can be made to support any opinion or idea, then how can you be sure that Jesus even came to earth and died for mankind, or that he ever existed. This is something that must have a solid foundation otherwise it is meaningless. If the Bible does not give that foundation then you have nothing else because the Jews do not accept the messiahship of Jesus.

bjc

24

"fullness of the Gentiles"

by RR in

for i do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to israel until the fullness of the gentiles has come in.

- romans 11:25. .

i wonder how many of you having read the 11 chapter of romans, see that the jews have not been rejected of god forever.. seems to me from the above verse that they were blinded to the truth, and that this blindness is temporary ... until the fullness of the gentiles, the gentiles, of course being those who would make up the church class, the bride of christ, the 144,000.. what say ye?.

bjc2012

RR,

The 144,000 that John wrote about did not have anything to do with the first century Christians. By the time that John wrote this, these Christians were a full blown group. And you can not limit them to something less than 144,000 individuals.

Paul said that there would be a dulling of the sensibilities of Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles came in. This would mean that these people would not be reasonable about the messiah and what he came to do. The record of the Bible book of Acts show this to be true. As you read that information, you cannot help but ask, 'what was wrong with those people? Paul couldn't go anywhere that the Jews wouldn't hunt him down and try to kill him. They were very unreasonable. But, if it can be proven that, since the year 70, there have been Jews that have accepted Christ, then you cannot say that their sensibilities are still dulled to this day. And I know for a fact that there are many 'messianic Jews' today. So, I cannot agree with you that the Jews still have their sensibilities dulled.

bjc

25

I'm confused

by NickL in

jw
friends

this db is advertised as a "witness" board.

yet there seems to be some disagreement over the place the wts should play in our lives.

can someone inform me what the "official" stand on this matter is?.

bjc2012

Hi TW,

Because I said they were God's people is not the same as saying that they are righteous, nor is the leadership righteous. You've read the Bible and you know that for most of Israel's history they had problems that caused Jehovah to have to discipline them. They were guilty of gross idolatry which is why Jehovah caused the land to vomit them out of it, as promised in the Law Covenant. The only period where there was righteousness among God's people was during the short period of the first century congregation. And this was because Jehovah intervened with holy spirit to help them keep on the 'straigt and narrow.'

You also know that the Bible states that the "Man of Lawlessness" would set himself up as 'a god' in God's own temple. If such individuals gain control, what do you think will be the consequences to the people? Unrighteous decisions and actions! And this is just what you've been a victim of, or whoever it is that you know who has been a victim of injustice. Did not Peter say also at 2 Peter 2:1 that "there also came to be false prophets among the people as there will also be false teachers among you."

If you choose to blame Jehovah for this situation, then so be it! But if you believe that He will exact vengence for this unrighteousness done in His Name as Paul says at 1 Thessalonians 1:6 which reads: "This takes into account that it is righteous on God's part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you."

Because you see these things going on among God's people and it seems God allows them, what is your reaction to God? Do you accuse Him of unrighteousness, loose your faith in His ability to rectify these situations, and so you turn your back on Him?

We all know that the 'whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one' and this includes God's people. In fact, they are the prime target. Do you suppose that Jehovah would not allow Satan to test everyone's faith? The leadership has given a wrong impression to the flock. They claim that the testing is over, that it occurred in 1918. Now is anyone alive today who went through that testing? No, every individual who gains God's approval will have his faith tested to the limit. How will you stand? As Jesus said at Luke 18:8; "When the son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on earth?"

bjc

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

bjc2012

Hi Larc,

What would cause you to believe that Jehovah would have the Bible written and just leave mankind in a quandary as to what He wants us to learn from it? It was written by His people, for His people. Jesus certainly spoke in parables to the general Jewish populace and most of them did not understand what he was saying. And most were content with this. However, a few of them were intensely interested and questioned him privately. We, as God's people, still to this day, do not understand these words and I suppose many have concluded that they are not understandable. That is simply not true. Jehovah does not reveal information to humans until it is His time and then it's only at a time when it would be most valuable to them. Yes we have arrived at that 'appointed time'.

Since we have never heard God's word explained correctly, other than what Jesus chose to explain to his disciples and this explanation applied to them in their day, a true explanation today would seem to sound odd or strange to our ears. But we needn't turn it down. We should be like the Beroeans, "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so." And they were checking behind an inspired individual, Paul. So would it be so bad to listen and then examine the Scriptures?

Isaiah 54:11-14 states: "O woman afflicted, tempest-tossed, uncomforted, here I am laying with hard mortar your stones, and I will lay your foundation with sapphires. And I will make your battlements of rubies and your gates of fiery glowing stones, and all your boundaries of delightsome stones. And all your sons will be persons taught by Jehovah, and the peace of your sons will be abundant. You will prove to be firmly established in righteousness itself. You will be far away from oppression-for you will fear none- and from anything terrifying, for it will not come near you." Jehovah promises his people that He will teach them which means that they will understand the Bible in its entirety. Otherwise how would He ever be able to consider them to be righteous. They will need to have absolute truth. Isaiah 55:1-3 contains the invitation to "listen intently" to Jehovah. All truth will be revealed!

bjc

25

I'm confused

by NickL in

jw
friends

this db is advertised as a "witness" board.

yet there seems to be some disagreement over the place the wts should play in our lives.

can someone inform me what the "official" stand on this matter is?.

bjc2012

Hi NickL,

You are definitely an anomaly here. I agree that JWs are God's people, but the leadership sucks. I would describe them as I've heard managers of businesses described: 'They've reached their level of incompetence'. They are very dogmatic about their teachings yet they are not inspired. They closely resemble the leaders of Israel in the first century before Jesus came to the earth who would throw a Jew out of the synagogue for the least infraction, especially those who disagreed with them. And of course they were teaching what they believed to be truth from the Law. Yet Jesus described the people as being 'skinned and thrown about as sheep without a shepherd.' This was because they were being led by uninspired men! Under Jesus' tutorlage, they would certainly have been healed of their spiritual maladies because he was inspired. (Matthew 8:17) When I say 'inspired' I'm talking about someone that Jehovah specifically commissions and teaches. The current GB has been in power since 1977 and they have not taught anything new but have been rehashing Fred Franz' old teachings (examples are the recent books on Daniel and Isaiah). But they most certainly have been changing a lot of teaching (the baptismal questions, the generation, the sheep and goats separated, etc.)to their detriment and that of the flock.

I would describe the congregations today as Jesus did. There are so many that are spiritually sick and so many who have left who simply would not return because of being treated unjustly. For them their treatment is proof that JWs are not God's people, but I would not go that far. I know what the problem is. I would not return because I can be spiritually sick out here by myself. I don't need any help to do this.

Jehovah's Witnesses are in need of having someone explain 'all the teachings of God.' This is the only thing that will heal them. It is about time. They have been carrying the Name now for almost 70 years. Enough reproach has been heaped upon God's Name because of their leadership not being able to make reasonable and rational decisions as in the case of pedophiles in the congregations. I am certain that Jehovah is rectifying this situation even today.

bjc

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

bjc2012

Hi Eyes-opened,

Yes, it most certainly is possible, or rather, it is certain that he will do this as His people have not kept the covenant that they entered into with Him. If you have no qualms about viewing JWs as modern-day Israel, as many people on this board do, then you can start at the beginning and go through to the end of the Bible substituting JWs each time you encounter the term "Israel" then you can see that this is exactly what will happen.

Specifically, a good scripture to begin with is Paul's words at Romans 10:19-21, where Paul quotes from Isaiah 65:1,2 and Deuteronomy 32:21. Israel, for the most part, would be replaced although Paul states in chapter 11 verse 5 that "a remnant has turned up according to choosing due to undeserved kindness." Israel in the first century was made up mostly of non-Israelites. Why do I believe that there is a modern-day fulfillment of these verses? Because, in reading the Greek Scriptures, I cannot find a complete fulfillment of all that is written in the Hebrew Scripture. And Jehovah is specific that "sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place." (Matt. 5:18). Isaiah 55:11 states: "...so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it." All of the Bible will be fulfilled.

Jehovah's Witnesses may not be a perfect people but they have had the courage to carry God's Name upon themselves and they've made some effort to live their lives in harmony with God's will. They are now, though, under grave sin as they have allowed themselves to be duped into committing idolatry and for this they must pay. Scriptures such as Zachariah 13:8,9 show that "two thirds" will be cut off and only a 'third part' will be left remaining in the land, and this 'third part' Jehovah will 'bring through the fire and refine them.' The entire nation will not be destroyed but a 'remnant' will be spared. The majority of 'modern-day Israel, at this time, will be comprised of non-Israelites as with the first century congregation.

bjc

51

Commentary

by Seven in

jw
friends

who's demanding?

faith in ourselves has superseded faith in god .

early in the 19th century, disputing the religious dogmatism of the puritans, ralph waldo emerson preached that "it is by yourself without ambassador that god speaks to you.

bjc2012

Hi Frenchy,

There is some information given about this individual at Isaiah 49:1-6.