Posts by bjc2012

42

How Can One Understand Prophecy Today?

by MDS in

how can one understand prophecy today?

jehovah reveals how .

"for who has stood in the intimate group of jehovah that he might see and hear his word?

bjc2012

Frenchy,

You have expressed my exact sentiments. I knew that truth was in the bible, but the WTS was not dispensing it. I have always believed that truth would stand up to any questioning and when the WTS refused to be questioned, then I reasoned that they must be deficient in their understanding to take a stance like this. Hence the statement "Wait on Jehovah, He will reveal it in his own time." And I do remember study articles where I said after we considered them "they don't know what they are talking about." So, no I was not going to be caught up in something like that again. My goal then became finding a logical explanation of all of the prophesies in the bible.

No, I could not see letting personalities come between me and understanding the bible. Personalities be damned, I wanted answers and I have questioned MDS for 10 years about explanations he has given. I have read the bible through each year to make sure that no one was pulling the wool over my eyes. I felt that I needed to know what was in the bible in order to be able to ask intelligent questions. I have found things that I didn't believe fit with some of his explanations and told him so. Some things he could not explain at the time I presented it to him. But he would later show me other scriptures that I had not considered that helped clear the matter up. He's done this over and over and frankly I am still asking for explanations. I am continually overwhelmed at the amount of information in the bible that I don't understand even after ten years of study. I simply have not found MDS to be deficient. I can actually see the scripture at Isaiah 52: 13-15 being fulfilled; which says, particularly in verse 15; "....At him kings will shut their mouth, because what had not been recounted to them they will actually see, and to what they had not heard they must turn their consideration." I would like to emphasize 'what they had not heard' because I have heard a lot of things that were totally new to me.

Earlier when we started these discussions, I have to say that I felt as many of you do, why him? What does he have that anyone else didn't have so that Jehovah would give him this kind of knowledge. My answer had to be, what did it matter, all I knew was that Jehovah was not giving it to me directly and if I wanted to understand his word I would have to get it from whomever Jehovah was giving it to.

I often think of the words spoken about Jesus at Matthew 7:28,29, which reads: "Now when Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds were astounded at his way of teaching' for he was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes." This is what I hear when I listen to MDS, a person speaking with authority. As with those Israelites, I have found no one who can refute his explanations. And I do read what others say. If there is any one out there who can give a more reasonable and logical explanation, I will give him a hearing ear. I am after truth and nothing else will do. I believe I have a basic enough understanding of the bible to be able to recognize whether someone knows what he is talking about. I have heard enough people here on this board say that MDS does not understand the bible but I have yet to see them prove it scripturally. MDS has taken ten years to hone his teachings. Has anyone else worked this hard to "find the very knowledge of God?" (Proverbs 2:5) If so, then let's hear it, but until then.....

Frenchy, everyone has to make up his own mind based on his love for Jehovah and faith in his word. I don't know if anyone can convince you with mere words that a particular person is being used by Jehovah. It may be as Jesus said: "No one comes to me unless the Father draws him." Sometimes you can fight so hard against something and that thing may be just what you're looking for. It just has not been presented in the package that you think it should have been. That's how the Jews missed out on identifying Jesus. In fact, Isaiah says something similar at Isaiah 53:2: "And he will come up like a twig before one, and like a root out of waterless land. No stately form does he have, not any splendor; and when we shall see him, there is not the appearance so that we should desire him." I believe this is saying that we are not going to like what we see.

Anyway, I hope you will continue to give this prayful consideration as you are doing.

bjc

42

How Can One Understand Prophecy Today?

by MDS in

how can one understand prophecy today?

jehovah reveals how .

"for who has stood in the intimate group of jehovah that he might see and hear his word?

bjc2012

Larc,

Sorry, my mistake!

42

How Can One Understand Prophecy Today?

by MDS in

how can one understand prophecy today?

jehovah reveals how .

"for who has stood in the intimate group of jehovah that he might see and hear his word?

bjc2012

Larc,
Consider that it could be the spirit in which you are asking. I mean, you have said some things that have given me the impression that you are only trying to see if you can stump MDS. If you are truly asking because you really want answers then there is no reason why MDS would not answer your questions. Jesus said that humility is very important for those who want to learn. Matthew 18:3,4 reads: "and said: "Truly I say to you, Unless you turn around and become as young children, you will by no means enter into the knigdom of the heavens. Therefore, whoever will humble himself like this young child is the one that is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens." If you believe that someone has information that you would like to know, this is the only way to obtain it.

46

Prophecy -- Can It Have More Than One Fulfillment?

by MDS in

jw
friends

the following discussion is based upon a question raised by larc, under another thread posted earlier.

it was interpreted that i could not answer the question.

the question was then, followed up by circare to the effect that i should comment upon it for the benefit of others who may be listening.. i have decided to respond.. these are the actual quotes, asked of me.. ...one minor point.

bjc2012

Frenchy,

Before you close this subject, I want to make one more statement about Isaiah 11:11.

The statement is from the Expositor's Bible Commentary, Volume 6, commentary on the book of Isaiah, page 90: "The eschatological phrase "in that day" occurring in both verses, (verses 10 and 11)relates this messianic teaching to the end times. Like most of the OT writers, Isaiah had a lively sense of the special importance of the Exodus from Egypt, when God had stretched out his hand to deliver his people. Isaiah looked forward to a time that will see an event comparable with it in redemptive significance (V.11) This will contrast with the Exodus, for those who return will be the remnant of a larger people, while it was the greatly enlarged family of Jacob that left Egypt under Moses. The event will also differ because this time the prople will not move together as a body from one point of departure but will come together from many lands and various points of the compass. Instead of going forth under a great leader they will come together seeking a greater leader still."

Apparently there are others who believs this prophesy has some modern-day fulfillment.

bjc

46

Prophecy -- Can It Have More Than One Fulfillment?

by MDS in

jw
friends

the following discussion is based upon a question raised by larc, under another thread posted earlier.

it was interpreted that i could not answer the question.

the question was then, followed up by circare to the effect that i should comment upon it for the benefit of others who may be listening.. i have decided to respond.. these are the actual quotes, asked of me.. ...one minor point.

bjc2012

Frenchy,

You might want to consider what Jehovah said to the Israelites who were determined to go to Egypt after Gedaliah was killed. Jeremiah tells us in chapter 42 that anyone going down to Egypt would positively not return to the land of Judah. Verses 15 and 16 say in part: "...This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel has said: "If you yourselves positively set your faces to enter into Egypt and you actually enter in to reside there as aliens, it must also occur that the very sword of which you are afraid will there catch up with you in the land of Egypt, and the very famine at which you are in a fright will there closely follow after you to Egypt; and there is where you will die." Verse 17 says: "And it will come about that all the men that have set their faces to enter into Egypt to reside there as aliens will be the ones to die by the sword, by the famine and by the persilence; and they will not come to have a survivor or an escapee, because of the calamity that I am bringing in upon them." The latter part of verse 18 says: "...you will certainly become a curse and an object of astonishment and a malediction and a reproach, and you will no more see this place."

If Jehovah carried out His word and He always does, there was no Israelite left in Egypt to return when they were released from Babylon.

bjc

32

Jesus second coming in the first century

by Jr in

this discussion will be quite extensive.

so, i have broken it up in to subtopics.

it will be shared by myself and associates in the faith.

bjc2012

Trevor,

Aren't you confusing Jesus with Jehovah. Jehovah has been ruling over mankind since creation, not Jesus.

As for Jesus, Philipians 2:9 says, "For this very reason (reason given in verses 5-8) also God exalted him to a superior position..." Now if he were already exalted then this statement has no meaning.

1 Corinthians 15:24,25 says that God "subjected all things under his feet." After he ascended to heaven, he said as recorded at Matthew 28:18, "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth."

Rulership was not his right. He had to prove his obedience to his God and creator just as we do. Hebrews 5:8,9 says: "Although he was a Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered; and after he had been made perfect he became responsibile for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him."

He became king by being appointed such by Jehovah. He did not have this position previously.

bjc

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

bjc2012

Thinker,

You said: If I am one of God's children, then why can't I have a one-on-one relationship with Him?

Why the 'if?" Are you in the position where none of you sins are counted against you by God? If so, then you are already one of God's children and you have a one-on-one relationship. But if not, then you need a mediator to intercede with God for you. And of course a mediator means a covenant is in existence and you must be a party to it. Is this the case?

Or am I misreading you?

bjc

26

MDS I wanna talk

by mommy in

jw
friends

sir i do not know you or claim too.

this world is a funny place, and the people in it are even stranger.

some people get validation from their families and others get it from outside of their families.

bjc2012

Mommy,

As far as I can tell all MDS has done in his posts is to point the finger at all JWs, in or out, scripturally speaking. Now I would think that if he wanted to gain converts he would most certainly be nicer to everyone. As it is said, you catch more flies with honey that with vinegar.

If you consider yourself to be 'weak' spiritually, you don't believe that there is anything that you can do to correct this situation? James 1:5-7 gives the formula for correcting this problem.

bjc

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

bjc2012

Thinker,

You said: If I am one of God's children, then why can't I have a one-on-one relationship with Him?

Why the 'if?' Have you reached a place in your life where none of your sins are counted against you by God? If so, then you should know that you are a 'child of God' and you already have a one-on-one relationship with him. If not, then you need a mediator in order to approach God and be heard by him. And, of course, a mediator means that a covenant is in existence of which you must be a party.

Or, am I misreading you?

bjc

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

bjc2012

Larc,

I was convinced because of the 'ring of truth,' that is, the explanations made sense. I don't need to have a person perform miracles in order to be convinced that he has been sent by Jehovah. This was not what convinced Peter, James, John, etc. It was Jesus' explanations of the scriptures. These men recognized that they were hearing things that the Pharisees had no idea about. I had known for some time, before I left the organization, that the WTS could not give satisfactory explanation to so much in the prophetic books. I thought that since we were close to the end, by their calculations, that Jehovah would soon give them the correct understanding.

Well, when I learned that the 607-1914 teaching was incorrect and I spoke to the elders about it, they were not willing to see that I had some valid concerns. I stated to them that I could not teach a lie, they tried to show me that there should be not division among God's people. Nothing was said to prove their case but if I didn't fall in line they were going to disfellowship me because I disagreed with them. I suppose that was when I realized that something more serious was wrong and maybe Jehovah was not using them.

Several others in other congregations were having the same problem as I and we decided to get together and see what we could learn about the bible on our own and this individual was among this group. We got down to some serious study, purchasing all kinds of bible study aids that we could afford. As the study progressed, it became apparent that Jehovah was not giving all of us understanding, just one of us. So as this individual begin explaining the prophetic books to us and none could refute what he said and, believe you me, we tried. Our little group continued with intense studying and it just became apparent that this individual was clearly heads and shoulders above us all in unravelling 'sacred secrets.' So we began paying attention to what he was saying. All of his explanations were not perfect in the beginning but we continued searching and finding things in the bible which we would present to him and challenge him to explain. Which he did and a picture begin to form.

The one thing that so impressed me was learning the Jehovah was not going to destroy billions of people on the basis of what Jehovah's Witness did or were unable to do because of governmental objections. The reason being was that they, the Witnesses, were not righteous in Jehovah's eyes themselves. They were, in actuality, in idolatry; they were worshipping the GB. That was a hard realization but I was finally able to understand how it was possible. If you know a teaching is a lie and you go along with it just because they tell you to do so then they have become your master, the one you obey, nevermind how Jehovah feels about lies.

Well, anyway, when we got to the book of Revelation and learned that it cannot be explained in a linear manner, that it is written in a circular manner, this individual then begin helping us to understand how everything in this book applies to Jehovah's Witnesses. That was it for me. I was 100% convinced that he was getting his information from Jehovah. No one has ever been able to satisfactorily explain this bible book and everybody has tried. You know how unsatisfactory the WTS' explanation is.

It's been ten years since we started, and we are continuing to learn. Sure we were most interested in time, when would all these things to happen. But this was never stressed as being important. But you have to get some idea of time as you go through the bible because Jehovah is the great timekeeper.

We always have known how important Jehovah's Name is to him and so we concluded that the time when JWs took that name must have some significance. So, since this occurred in 1931 under JF Rutherford, who everyone agrees was not a very spiritual person, and since we know that seventy years seems to be a time period that Jehovah refers to often, and seventy years from 1931 is 2001, we concluded that something important would occur especially since these same people are committing idolatry while carrying the Name. Would Jehovah react to this bringing of reproach on His name by His own people after seventy years? Well....

I am simply relating to you the basic reasons to explain why I am convinced that Jehovah has sent someone to 'become my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back even the safeguarded ones of Israel...and to be a light to the Gentiles that my salvation may come to be to the extremity of the earth" (Isaiah 49:6)

I firmly believe that Jehovah is now acting to accomplish this and if I have to stand alone in this belief, it won't bother me. I am 100% convinced that this is truth. I have read information of this board and any other board that I found and I remain solid that I have truth, finally!

I know that this is not enough to convince everybody, but this is my position and I intend to defend it. There is so much to learn and I cannot possible tell you everything. You have to be willing to read the Bible and ask questions. Obviously you don't believe that the WTS has the answers.

bjc