Posts by bjc2012

56

On STUMBLING BLOCKS

by You Know in

jw
friends

just a few loose ends and random thoughts for a select group of readers who have not been completely defrauded of your faith.. on the topic of stumbling: stumbling typically involves the mistakes of others whether real or perceived.

the reason jehovah does not consider any stumbling block as a valid reason for abandoning ones faith is because a persons faith should be in jehovah and christ in the first place.

and since god most assuredly did not let his worshipper down, what a fellow believer does or does not do should have no bearing upon our personal relationship with our heavenly father.

bjc2012

You Know:

From my standpoint, this is one of the most significant events as far as the fulfillment of Bible prophecy is concerned. I seriously doubt if the brothers involved even have any idea of the trap that they have stepped in. That’s the nature of traps and stumbling blocks. On the other hand, it may well be the work of plants, who, by their smooth words, have deliberately sabotaged the Society without anyone being quite aware of the extent. At any rate, there is more reason now than ever before for Jehovah's loyal ones to anticipate a total house cleaning. That, of course, is exactly what Christ promises to do when he arrives for his final inspection. / You Know

Here is the Bible Prophecy that Christ is concerned about, the one you refuse to see.

"In that day you [Israel] will not be ashamed because of all your dealings with which you transgressed against me, for then I shall REMOVE FROM THE MIDST OF YOU YOUR HAUGHTILY EXULTANT ONES ; and you will never again be haughty in my Holy Mountain." (Zephaniah 3:11)

What you do not want to see is that God "removes" all the "haughtily exultant ones" from the congregation. The real culprits. Bible prophecy indicates he identifies the real villians. You refuse to see this.

Jesus, extracts them from the congregation's whole or body. Bible prophecy indicates it is the leaders who by their wicked "dealings" cause Israel to "transgress against" God. They cause Israel (JWs) to sin. It is the Governing Body that commits the "transgression that causes desolation." (Daniel 8:12, 13)

Something you cannot admit.

What you refuse to see, is the "haughtily exultant ones" are the Governing Body of JWs, the "Man of Lawlessness," acting as a "god", "publicly showing himself to be a [rival] god," in God's Temple. (2 Thess. 2:3-12)

You refuse to see the Governing Body are the real presumptuous, haughty ones "in the holy mountain" of God; they are the "haughtily exultant" among JWs.

"And I shall certainly let remain in the midst of you a people humble and lowly, and they will actually take refuge in the name of Jehovah As regards the remaining ones of Israel, they will do no unrighteousness, nor speak a lie, nor will there be found in their mouths a tricky tongue; for they themselves will feed and actually lie stretched out, and there will be no one making them tremble." (Zephaniah 3:12, 13)

It can proven, Jehovah's Witnesses, are following a group of very wicked individuals at Bethel, who categorically teach them to out-and-out "LIE." Its printed in their publications as proof, under the definition of a "lie". They are taught to "lie" in the Name of God, shamelessly, brazenly. They are taught "unrighteousness" Like how to "speak a lie," and misrepresent themselves and the truth, as so-called "Theocratic Strategy", to the "Superior Authorities." For instance, the United Nations Organization, governmental figures and others outside the congregation. Those who have "Relative Authority" over christians, given them by God. Christians are plainly told not to "oppose" nor "take a stand against" these "authorities" lest we become enemies with God. (Romans 13:1,2)

The Governing Body of JWs, lied, openly to those governmental "authorities," the United Nations Organization. And when found out, they "lied" to the congregation and the press, while secretly removing their status as NGOs for the United Nations Organization.

The Governing Body are low-life liars, in God's Name. And, likewise Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to speak with the "mouth of a tricky tongue." They are truly a "tricky tongue" people. Taught that way by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

We can only imagine what God has in store for these miserable, wretched souls who would sully His Great Name. (Jer. 23:19, 20; 30:23, 24)

Only, the "humble" will survive what God has in store for them, for their unrepentant and repeated "lying", speaking untruth, deliberate untruth in His Name.

This is what you, You Know, refuse to see from Bible prophecy.

bjc

99

YK on WT UN NGO STATUS

by You Know in

several posters have asked what i thought of the.

revelations about the wt being associated with the un.

as an ngo so i thought i might make a brief comment on.

bjc2012

Ezekiel's Mystery "Chieftain"/Leader, A Sinner???

We read at Ezekiel 44:1-3 the following mysterious information about a FUTURE Temple of God's making and blessing,

"And he proceeded to bring me back by way of the gate of the Sanctuary, the outer one facing east, and it was shut. Then Jehovah said to me: "As regards this gate, shut is how it will continue. It will not be opened, and no mere man will come in by it; for Jehovah himself, the God of Israel, has come in by it, and it must continue shut. However, the chieftain -- as chieftain he himself will sit in it [the east gate], in order to eat bread before Jehovah. By way of the porch of the gate he will come in, and by way of it he will go out." -- Ezekiel 44:1-3

"And on that day, in his own behalf and in behalf of all the people of the land, the chieftain must provide a young bull as a sin offering." -- Ezekiel 45:22

Who is this mystery "Chieftain." Is it Jesus Christ? Or is it someone else? In the above quoted scripture, he is said to have made a "sin" offering for himself as well as for the people of the nation?

1) Why would Jesus Christ, a perfect, sinless person while on earth, need to do such a thing?

2) Also, is Jesus Christ today, in the form of a "man" who makes earthly sacrifices "for himself," to cover some sin that he may have committed?

3) Jesus dwells in heaven, the bible says, in powerful spirit form. He is not a man, anymore. But the Mystery "Chieftain" is a man. How could this person prove to be Jesus Christ, in human form, offering sacrifices for "sins" he has committed?

Bible scholars answer no. They say it is a man.

The Expositors Bible Commentary Volume 6 (released in 1986) page 974 makes this straightforward comment on the "chieftain's" identity. It says,

"Only the prince was permitted to enter this gate. He must enter and leave by way of the portico from the outer court only. His only function within that gate was to eat bread in the presence of the LORD, but exactly which meal or for what purpose is not stated.

"The identity of this prince has been a puzzle to many. The meaning of the Hebrew word nasi has in itself contributed to the problem. The English word prince connotes royalty. However, the word nasi would best be translated "leader" (cf. E.A. Speiser, "Background and Function of the Biblical Nasi," CBQ 25 [1963]: 111-17). This leader was not the Messiah, because the leader is made a sin offering for himself (cf. 45:22). If the leader" were Jesus Christ, then he, the Messiah, would need cleansing from sin. Such was not possible (cf. Heb 4:15). In addition, this leader had natural children (46:16), another impossibility for the Messiah. The leader was a man."

"The identity of the leader is unknown. He functions as the people's leader in their millennial worship, almost like a high priest, but not having the same role and function." -- Expositors Bible Commentary Volume 6, page 974

The Mystery "Chieftain" is not Jesus Christ. It is some one else. A man.

bjc

99

YK on WT UN NGO STATUS

by You Know in

several posters have asked what i thought of the.

revelations about the wt being associated with the un.

as an ngo so i thought i might make a brief comment on.

bjc2012

Hi Escargot:

And is Christ also the Mystery "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3?

bjc

99

YK on WT UN NGO STATUS

by You Know in

several posters have asked what i thought of the.

revelations about the wt being associated with the un.

as an ngo so i thought i might make a brief comment on.

bjc2012

Hi Escargot:

After all things considered, it is my current viewpoint that you have very eloquently put this NGO situation in perspective for those of us who do look toward God and Christ to come and “correct many things.”

Well, instead maybe God or Christ "sends" someone, maybe "Elijah".

"Look! I am sending to you people Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and fear in-inspiring day of Jehovah...in order that I may not come and actually strike the earth with a devoting of it to destruction." -- Malachi 4:5,6

"...Why, then to the scribes say that Elijah must come first? In reply he said: Elijah indeed, is coming and will restore all things." -- Matt. 17:10, 11

Elijah comes first, "restores all things" before Jesus comes.

First spiritual "apostasy" occurs. (Dan. 11:32) Then, Jesus and the apostles by necessity become "judges" in heaven over "Israel", while "Elijah" carries out his "restoration" work toward Israel.

"...In the re-creation ["palingenesis"; spiritual "regeneration", spiritual "rebirth"] when the Son of Man sits down upon his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."-- Matt. 19:28

"and that He [God] may send forth the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven indeed, must hold within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old time." -- Acts 3:20, 21

Elijah is the mystery "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3 that is allowed to "eat bread in the presence" of God.

Here is the link to the Mystery "Chieftain" thread:

>> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10030&site=3

Hope this helps.

bjc

99

YK on WT UN NGO STATUS

by You Know in

several posters have asked what i thought of the.

revelations about the wt being associated with the un.

as an ngo so i thought i might make a brief comment on.

bjc2012

You Know,

You said:

You and I are not the judge of God's people.

Did not Paul say at 1 Corinthians 5:12, 13 this: “For what do I have to do with judging those on the outside? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside?” On this basis, I most certainly will judge them.

You are not talking to the rank and file JW here. There are thinking people reading these posts and we do recognize propaganda when we read it. That's what you are dishing out in trying to defend the indefensible. The GB is the acknowledged leader of this group of people and they are responsible for everything that is said and done by their subordinates. They will be held accountable. I believe Lloyd Barry signed the original application for NGO status and he dropped dead while giving a talk. Maybe someone has already begun to judge.

In fact, the prophecy of Daniel that I cited earlier, foretold that even some of those with insight would be made to stumble in order to effect a refining, cleansing, and whitening of the faithful ones.

You seem fond of quoting from Daniel 11 and yet you know that nothing in this chapter will be fulfilled until the King of the North has taken over. He is the one who will apply pressure to God's people. Presently, the GB is not being pressured by the KOS to do anything. They do what they want to. They signed as an NGO with the UN because they wanted to not because of pressure. Since you cannot even identify the KON at present, what makes you think that the events that will occur under his regime can be applied to the present situation? I think that you are getting ahead of the Bible.

Well, what the Society has done may well be the "transgression" for which Jehovah allows us to be laid low for a time.

I don't believe that the word 'desolation' carries the same connotation as that of being 'laid-low.' Daniel 11:15 and 16 shows this: “And the King of the north will come and throw up a siege rampart and actually capture a city with fortifications. And as for the arms of the south, they will not stand, neither the people of his picked ones; and there will be no power to keep standing. And the one coming against him will do according to his will, and there will be no one standing before him. And he will stand in the land of the Decoration, and there will be extermination in his hand.” This king will not be coming in a peaceful manner. He will take control of the ‘land of Decoration.’ And he will exterminate this land unless they agree to compromise. And compromise they will. Daniel 11:32 shows that he will lead into apostasy those ‘acting wickedly against the covenant.’ And who are these but those associating with the UN, in spite of their knowledge of who this organization represents in the bible. Because of this situation, those ‘who have insight’ will not be found to be sitting ducks, waiting for this to happen. They will have acted on Jesus’ advice, ahead of these events happening, to ‘flee to the mountains’ when they catch sight of the ‘disgusting thing’ standing where it ought not. They will have proved themselves to have ‘discernment.’ Then, when outside the ‘land of Decoration, they will have to do battle with the KON, proving they have insight, proving they ‘know their God.’

Those with ‘insight’ must abandon Jerusalem now because the next step that those ,acting wickedly against the covenant, will take will be to ‘place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation’ as Daniel 11:31 says. This act will seal their fate as far as Jehovah is concerned. Once this has occurred, it will be too late to flee. The ‘disgusting thing standing in a holy place’ is given as a sign to alert all as to what is about to happen. Luke 21:20 says this: “Furthermore, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her is near.” So, those with ‘insight’ will see this ‘disgusting thing’ and they will know that the ‘desolating of Jerusalem is near.’ They will begin ‘fleeing to the mountains.’

The facts prove otherwise. The faithful slave has kept Jehovah’s Witnesses focused upon our assignment to preach the good news of the kingdom.

You are using a term for these leaders that has not yet been granted to them. They have not proved to be ‘faithful nor discreet.’ This title cannot be deferred upon them until, as you said ‘the master comes and gives them the ‘well done faithful slave’ commendation. It hasn’t happened yet. There is much more testing to be done. Maybe that’s why the parable starts out with the question, who is the faithful and wise slave. Only time will answer.

in spite of all the difficulties and pressures brought to bear against him.

What difficulties and pressures have JWs experienced in the last fifty some years? Most JWs today have not experienced real pressure. Just wait until the KON gets his grimy little hands on you. If you get past him, you will have something to brag about.

bjc

99

YK on WT UN NGO STATUS

by You Know in

several posters have asked what i thought of the.

revelations about the wt being associated with the un.

as an ngo so i thought i might make a brief comment on.

bjc2012

You Know,

I must speak out in behalf of Moses. Under no circumstance can what he did be compared to what your leaders have done. Moses did not commit a deliberate sin, he acted out of anger because of the complaining and rebellious Israelites. (Numbers 20: 2-5) Certainly he acted rashly, but as Moses himself said at Deuteronomy 3:26: “And Jehovah continued to be furious against me on your account and did not listen to me; but Jehovah said to me, ‘That is enough of you! Never speak to me further on this matter.’” You will notice, it was on account of the Israelites that Moses committed this sin. You could even say that they stumbled Moses. Notice that Jehovah accused Moses of ‘failing to sanctify him before the nation,’ not of presumptuousness or blasphemy, a deliberate sin. Numbers 20:12 says: “Later Jehovah said to Moses and Aaron: ‘Because you did not show faith in me to sanctify me before the eyes of the sons of Israel, therefore you will not bring this congregation into the land that I shall certainly give them.’” Moses would not have been allowed to continue another day as leader of the nation of Israel after having committed such a grievous sin. Certainly Jehovah would not have allowed the nation to mourn Moses death as they did. As it was, Moses’ sin was such that Jehovah could not let him take the nation into the promise land. But he continued to exhort the nation to faithfulness until they reached the land. A blasphemous person would not have been allowed this privilege.

Now let’s consider what the WTBTS did. You can in no way consider their leaguing up with the UN a mistake. If they did not recognize what the UN stood for and its place in Bible prophecy, then you might have a case. But they have been writing for 80 or more years in their literature that this organization is the’ disgusting thing’ of Bible prophecy and hence for them to go ahead and become an NGO in association with the DPI is indefensible. Not only that, but they hid what they were doing from their flock. Now if they became a NGO in order to do humanitarian works, why hide this from the R&F and why resign the position when it becomes known what you have been doing for nine years. Job 31:33 says of this: “If I was like an earthly man, I covered over my transgressions by hiding my error in my shirt pocket.” In what way does this resemble what Moses did?

If it was a mistake, why did it take nine years for them to realize their mistake? What was holy spirit doing these nine years? Not only did they hide the sin, but they also can be said to have practiced this sin as they did it for nine years. This is something that the Bible says ‘anointed individuals’ can not do. 1 John 3: 9 says: “Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin because his reproductive seed remains in such ones, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God.”

They always exhort the flock to wait on Jehovah to deal with difficult problems. Why did they not wait on Jehovah to open up the various lands that they were not allowed to preach in. Why did they need to take matters into their hands by trying to get into these countries by the ‘backdoor’ so to speak, all the while lying to the DPI about their reasons for becoming an NGO. As Jehovah asks in Isaiah 50:2, which says in part: “Has my hand become in fact so short that it cannot redeem, or is there in me no power to deliver?” Isn’t this what presumptuousness really is, running ahead of Jehovah? Again, in what way does this resemble what Moses did? Jehovah had already told him what he was to do to provide water for the people. When did Jehovah tell the GB that it was okay to join hands with the ‘disgusting thing’ in order to accomplish their work?

In using their publications to espouse the UN, they have allowed this entity to 'stand in a place where it ought not to be;' thereby committing the 'transgression that causes desolation.' Moses did not do this.

As far as applying Luke 12:47,48 to the GB, I believe you have a problem. If you expect to defend the Governing Body by saying that they did not understand, then I have to ask why would they be appointed to a position of leadership over God’s people and Jesus not prepare them for it? Why appoint someone over the flock who ‘does not understand' and has to beaten with a few stripes? This sounds to me to be a someone who has not been given much responsibility. The flock couldn't possibly be getting their 'food at the proper time' under this kind of leadership. It makes more sense to say that the appointed leaders ‘did understand but refused to do the master's will or get ready’ as they had been commanded.

bjc

23

Forgiving the Governing Body

by Derrick in

jw
friends

as a baptized jehovah's witness, i have been tested over the years by those very ones who claim they are entrusted with my soul.

i'll digress a moment to state that one strong theory that has deeply troubled me over the years, centers around their transformation over a century into a caricaturistic representation of christendom.

(refer definition of caricature at http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=caricature for clarification.).

bjc2012

Ianao,

Take it from me, you are the last person I would recommend the "Report" to. It has nothing in it that concerns you.

bjc

23

Forgiving the Governing Body

by Derrick in

jw
friends

as a baptized jehovah's witness, i have been tested over the years by those very ones who claim they are entrusted with my soul.

i'll digress a moment to state that one strong theory that has deeply troubled me over the years, centers around their transformation over a century into a caricaturistic representation of christendom.

(refer definition of caricature at http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=caricature for clarification.).

bjc2012

Derrick,

You said:

Let me ask you seriously, could anyone oppose a "friendly takeover" of the Watchtower corporations for the purpose of going in there, and transforming it into what it was truly supposed to represent in the first place?

If, as you surmise, the demons have taken control, how could this be accomplished? Will the demons simply allow humans to wrest control from them without causing them to compromise also? I beleive that what you're looking at is the fulfillment of Matthew 13:31, 32 which reads: "Another illustration he set before them, saying: 'The kingdom of the heavens is like a mustard grain, which a man took and planted in his field; which is, in fact, the tiniest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the largest of the vegetables and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and find lodging among its branches.'" The birds, of course, being the demons. Another appropriate illustsration is found at Luke 13:20, 21. It reads: "And again he said: 'With what shall I compare the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three large measures of flour until the whole mass was fermented.'" This organization was humming along fine until Ray Franz came up with the bright idea that the Bible supported a body of elders taking the lead rather than an individual, thus giving rise to this group of men taking control. The organization has been in a downhill slide ever since. The UN situation plainly shows that Jesus words at Matthew 24:15 are now appropo. He said: "Therefore when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation as spoken of through Daniel the prophet standng in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains." (See also Danniel 11:31)

By allowing this 'foreigner to come into the temple,' (Ezekiel 44:6, 7) these leaders have committed the 'transgression that causes desolation.' Daniel 8:13 says regarding this: "And I got to hear a certain holy one speaking, and another holy one proceeded to say to the particular one speaking: 'How long will the vision be of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation, to make the holy place and the army things to trample on?'" Did you notice the expression 'to make the holy place and the army things to trample on?' What these men have done is going to cause this people to be trampled by the King of the North. (Daniel 11:40, 41) Jehovah will allow it, he has prophesied it will occur because of this grave sin. Jehovah has not authorized a 'friendly takeover.' The takeover by the KON will not be a friendly one.

The question then is: Who will take Jesus' admonition and flee to the mountains before this calamity occurs? The proof that the 'disgusting thing' is standing where it ought not to be has been given.

bjc

15

WELL WORTH READING: JW's + 144,000

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

found this material on an yahoo egroups site on greek theology on which quite a number of witness apologists contribute.

there is quite a bit of interesting stuff on here, but here is a worthwhile comment made on the 144,000 as they relate to the "fds class" and jw's since 1879. establishes from purely mathematical point of view that the 144,000 cannot be a literal but figurative.

quote:.

bjc2012

Individual,

Does not Revelation 14:4 say of these ones this: "These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb." Why use the term 'from among mankind' if they come from natural Israel only?

Also Revelation 5:9,10 says: "...you brought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." Do these verses pertain to the 144,000? If so, then isn't it describing 'spiritual Israelites' not natural Israelites?

I don't believe that much in the book of Revelation other than the first few chapters pertained to the first century Christians. It basically deals with events in the 'Lord's Day.'

bjc

21

United Nations Getting A Little On The Side...

by messenger in

jw
friends

i find it interesting the new found love the wt appears to have for the un.

in the two latest articles, july 22, awake and august 1, wt, they make reference to the good policies of the un and it's universal declaration of human rights.

as my memory serves, the harlot represents babylon the great (aka, false religion, aka, all religion except jw's) that commits fornication with the wild beast (aka, un representing all kingdoms of the earth) does this bring on a "new light" adjustment in wt doctrine?

bjc2012

Seeker,

My question to you is this: Did anyone else after reading the 9/8/91 article in the Awake magazine conclude the following: "Believe it or not, this is the very first article of its kind on the vital subject of the United Nations Organization. But it will probably not be the last?" (The Report, page 211)

If you read that article, what conclusions did you reach? The Report continues: "The September 8, 1991 Awake! article on the UN is a miserable and totally untenable display of cowardice! - 2 Timothy 1:7. Ask yourself: Could such a display of cowardice as demonstrated by this article be a promise of what is to come? "What things to come?" you may say. Well, let's notice Daniel 11:32 which says: "And those who are acting wickedly against the covenant, he [King of the North] will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words." Though this powerful Kng of the North has not prevailed upon the Watchtower as yet, could this article give us a small clue of what is to happen when he does arrive on the earthly scene? Does it? Could this be a demonstration of the unhealthy influence that the United Nations Organization has over the fear-struck Zedekiah-like Watchtower Society? Could the United Nations Organization have already taken some hidden action or made some threatening demands upon the Watchtower Society precipitating this new softened message?"

The writers may not have known about the NGO situation, but they were well aware back in 1991 (the date that this information was written) that something that had never happened before was going on between the WT and the UN based on that article.

No, they were not reporting anything. They were writing about the implications of such an article and its effect upon readers of the Awake!, a magazine that had previously written articles condemning the UN.

The information concerning the fulfillment of bible prophecy is what is prophetic. Will what the Report predicts concerning the future of the WTS come true? Will the WTS tell the R&F that the UN is not the 'disgusting thing' that Jesus spoke about? You can make your decision when and if this occurs as to whether they have correctly prophesied concerning this organization.

bjc