Posts by bjc2012

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

bjc2012

You Know,

The latest teachings on the great tribulation by the WTS are: the initial phase of the great tribulation is the attack on Babylon the Great and then the nations of the world gets it. This they say corresponds to the attacks on Jerusalem in 66 and 70 CE. Now I ask: How can Jerusalem have represented Babylon the Great in 66 CE and then represented the nations of the world in 70 CE? Now, that's what I call silly!

Jesus' words at Luke 21:20, 21 show that they were to flee Jerusalem when "you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies..." Cestus Gaius did not surround Jerusalem in 66. That occurred in 70 when Titus encircled the city. So, you cannot say that christians fled the city in 66 CE if you base it on what Gaius did.

The nations will gather against JWs when Jehovah says so. It has nothing to do with the world situation. During previous wars JWs were persecuted for the same reason any other group would be; they refused to participate in them. What I'm stressing to you is that when the great tribulation begins, there will not be a war to which a JW could point to explain why he is under attack. That's the difference!

bjc

3

Somebody here from Midtown in Syracuse NY

by LDH in

jw
friends

i'm so sorry--i deleted your email before i had a chance to respond.. please re-send it!.

lisa, who knows everyone in midtown/southeast hills/eastwood/fairmount/camillus etc etc etc

bjc2012

Lisa,

I posted to you that I attended the Midtown Congregation in Syracuse, NY for about 15 years. I moved south in the late nineteen eighties to pioneer, but of course, have since left the organization.

"Lisa, who knows everyone in Midtown/Southeast Hills/Eastwood/Fairmount/Camillus etc etc etc"

Tell me about yourself. My e-mail is open if you prefer.

bjc

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

bjc2012

You Know:

In a sense they will be observers of how God disciplines his people, that's because we have been so vocal about how we are the only ones who are going to breeze through the tribulation whilst ole Christendom gets whacked. When things don't go down that way it will be a tremendous reproach for us. So, when Jehovah dissolves our covenant with death during the tribulation, the nations will take note that Jehovah has seemingly abandoned us. But, BUT! They will not be mere casual bystanders to the tribulation itself, because they will be in the thick of that too.

You show by this statement, a critical lack of Bible understanding. You do not understand the Bible at all, nor do you "know Jehovah," the Person. {Hebrews 8:11) Again, Jeremiah 25:29 and 1 Peter 4:17 shows that "Gods House" comes under "judgment" First, before all others. First. And First means first. Jehovah's Witnesses will be "disciplined" by God, "first," first before all others, totally ALONE. Totally alone. How so?

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TO RECEIVE INTENSE WORLDWIDE PERSECUTION PRIOR TO WORLD WAR, WORLD FAMINE, WORLD PESTILENCE

Ezekiel 36th chapter gives us the details. Also Zech 12:2,3.

"Therefore prophesy, and you must say, This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: For the reason, even for the reason that there has been a lying desolate and a SNAPPING AT YOU FROM ALL SIDES, in order for you to become a possession to the remaining ones of the nations and you CONTINUE BEING TALKED ABOUT WITH THE TONGUE and there is a BAD REPORT among people...This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, For the reason that there are those SAYING TO YOU: "A devourer of humankind in what you yourself are, and a land bereaving your nations of children is what you have become," therefore humankind you will no more devour, and your nations you will no more bereave of children," is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. And I shall cause no further HUMILIATING TALK by the nations to be HEARD concerning you, and REPROACH by peoples you will bear no more, and your nations you will no more CAUSE TO STUMBLE." -- Ezekiel 36:3, 13-15

"Here I am making Jerusalem a bowl causing reeling to all the peoples round about; and also against Judah he will come to be in the SIEGE, even against Jerusalem. And it must occur in that day that I shall make Jerusalem a BURDENSOME STONE to all the peoples. All those lifting it will without fail get severe scratches for themselves; and AGAINST HER ALL THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH will certainly be gathered." -- Zechariah 12:2, 3

"ALL NATIONS" are "gathered against" God's people, first. They place "Israel" or Jerusalem under "siege." This is a worldwide condition. It cannot be missed, this situation is unmistakable.

We recall, Persecution can take on many forms. It can be even VERBAL, as John 5:16 shows.

Because of their present-day, horrible spiritual condition and despicable conduct, Jehovah's Witnesses are going to come under INTERNATIONAL ATTACK and intense VERBAL persecution by the Hand of God, BEFORE the Great War of our times. (Daniel 10:1) Based upon Jesus' words, we can expect the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses to become the recepients of many legal battles, many legal confrontations, problems with the authorities of the land, on a WORLDWIDE SCALE, yes, "BEFORE all of these things" start to occur. These conditions are known as, PRE-TRIBULATION [or pre- "trampling"; pre-"Gentile Times"] CONDITIONS. That's Pre-Tribulation Conditions. -- See KJV Luke 21:24

You may remember Jesus' words at Luke 21:12 where he said:

"But, BEFORE ALL THESE THINGS people [irreligious people of nations] will lay their hands upon YOU [christians] and PERSECUTE YOU [christians], delivering YOU [christians] up to the synagogues and prisons, you being haled before kings and governors for the sake of my name."

"Before all these things...", he said.

Before what things?

Luke 21:10, 11 tells us what things,

"Then he went on to say to them: Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom and there will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another pestilences and food shortages; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs."

Jesus said, "Before all these things," BEFORE things such as World War, famine, pestilence -- which are in essence the rides of the "fiery colored horse", the "pale horse," and "black horse" of Revelation 6th chapter. BEFORE all these things, Christians are persecuted.

Indeed, World War, World Pestilence, World Famine, are truly coming upon earth's inhabitants as a whole -- these seemingly insurmountable earthwide problems that are WORLDWIDE conditions and situations that affect the entire globe. Yes, the entire globe and all of earth's inhabitants are affected and caught up in the grip in these very visible things.

But, the earth's inhabitants will NOT be involved in the worldwide persecution heaped upon God's Name People, Jehovah's Witnesses, just as Jesus said. This happens "BEFORE ALL THESE THINGS."

And why?

It is just as the prophet said,

"...there is a BAD REPORT among people." -- Ezekiel 36:3;

Jehovah God uses this "Bad Report" to cause the "Nations" en mass to gather against Jehovah's Witnesses as a united people and persecute them on a worldwide scale as just "fruits" and "wages" for their practice of sin. This all happens BEFORE any WORLD calamity -- before world war, world famine, and world pestience. -- Rev. 6:1-8; Daniel 10:1; Luke 21:10, 11

This way, Jehovah God and Jesus stay consistent in judgment and discipline toward "Israel", based upon her past course of conduct. -- Please see Luke 8:17and Jeremiah 46:28.

bjc

5

Anyone from Central NY?

by betweenworlds in

jw
friends

i don't live there now, but i was just wondering if there are any folks who post here who might be from my old stomping grounds when i was a dub.

hoping to connect up with others who i used to know who now realize that the truth isn't the truth.. bw.

ps: i was from the rome/utica area

bjc2012

Hi LDH

"Hi Between--I'm from Syracuse."

I lived in Syracuse for 15 years. Which congregation did you attend? I attended the one that was then called 'Midtown.' I believe they have moved now.

bjc

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

bjc2012

You Know,

You said: "Jesus said it at Matthew 24:29: "Immediately after the tribulation in those days the sun will be darkened....and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven." So the initial phase of the tribulation is the cataclyism that comes upon the entire inhabited earth and causes men to faint with fear in expectation of further calamity. As a result of that initial blow the governments, or the powers of the heavens as Jesus cryptically referred to them, will collapse. After that, though, Christ is revealed and Armageddon ensues. So there most definetly are two distinct phases leading up to the end of the world."

I did not see two distinct phases of the tribulation described in your above answer. The phrase 'immediately after the tribulation" cannot by any stretch of the imagination be construed to mean that this is a part of the tribulation. Unless, of course, the word 'after' means something entirely different to you than what is given in the dictionary. The only 'distinct phases,' as you put it, of the tribulation that could possibly exist are its 'beginning' and its 'end.'

Try again!

bjc

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

bjc2012

You Know,

The “initial phase” of the great tribulation? Where does the Bible say that the tribulation will be divided into phases? I know, you’ve got to stick to WTS doctrine or else. You appear to be a thinking man. How can you just accept this explanation without any scriptural evidence.

Jesus states at Matthew 24:20 “Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime, nor on the Sabbath day.” If his disciples have to flee and the whole world is in turmoil, where will they be able to flee? The tribulation is upon everyone according to your theory. There is no place of safety. What are they fleeing from? There would be no point to this statement unless the tribulation is directed at one group of people. Also the fact that he also said “on account of the chosen ones, these days will be cut short” shows that they are the ones directly affected. Or, are you saying that Jehovah cares nothing for the world of mankind, only JWs? That’s really an awful statement to make about the Creator and it is not true. JWs believe that they have preached a message to the world that is sufficient to condemn them. But, the message that they have preached is a very contradictory one. It is fraught with untruths, the 1914 lie being the most egregious one. Jeremiah 8:8 (NIV) states: “How can we say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?” Jehovah is not going to judge the whole world based on such a message.

And don’t you think that this people will get away before being taught a lesson to not lie in Jehovah’s name. If you think that He will take lying lightly, then you don’t really know Jehovah. JWs have put themselves onto the world scene as Jehovah’s representatives and they will bear the punishment for their iniquities. They are the ones Jehovah will call to account for this, not the world! Jeremiah 23:15 says: Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said against the prophets: “Here I am making them eat wormwood, and I will give them poisoned water to drink. For from the prophets of Jerusalem apostasy has gone forth to all the land.”

You said: “But, when the tribulation commences in a way and impacts Jehovah’s witnesses as we have not expected…”

You make it sound like an accidental brush with the great tribulation. Hosea 6:1 disagrees with you. It reads: “Come, you people, and let us return to Jehovah, for he himself has torn us to pieces but he will heal us. He kept striking, but he will bind us up.” He has torn us to pieces, he kept striking? Isaiah 30:26 (a scripture you quoted in one of your post) even more potently says: “…in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals even the severe wound resulting from the STROKE BY HIM.” This is a deliberate act of punishment brought by Jehovah himself, unless you don’t really believe the scriptures and I know better than that.

What constitutes divine punishment? It certainly isn’t “From the standpoint of the world.” Why would Jehovah execute divine punishment upon the world before he punishes his own name people for their apostasies? JUDGEMENT STARTS WITH THE HOUSE OF GOD. Have we no scriptural examples of divine punishment? Are the accounts of Jehovah sending the Assyrians and Babylonians against Israel acceptable examples? Was the entire world affected at the same time as was Israel? Were not the surrounding nations eyewitnesses of this punishment? Did not Jehovah say at Jeremiah 25:29, this: “For, look! It is upon the city upon which my name is called that I am starting off in bringing calamity, and should you yourselves in any way go free of punishment?” Yes, he will punish the nations, but with whom does the punishment start? With the “city upon which my name is called.” At Jeremiah 25:17, 18 where Jeremiah was told to ‘make all the nations drink to whom Jehovah had sent me’ who was named first? “Jerusalem and the cities of Judah and her kings, her princes…” God’s own people were made to drink first!

You said: “In a sense they will be observers of how God disciplines his people…”

In a sense? The scriptures are definitely more emphatic than you would admit. How does one observe ‘in a sense?’ Either they observe or they don’t. Ezekiel 36:6, 15 should be considered. “Therefore, prophesy concerning the soil of Israel, and you must say to the mountains and to the hills, to the streambeds and to the valleys, “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “Look! I myself in my zeal and in my rage must speak, for the reason that humiliation by nations is what you have borne.””” “And I shall cause no further humiliating talk by the nations to be heard concerning you, and reproach by peoples you will bear no more, and your nations you will no more cause to stumble,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.” Please explain how the nations can be humiliating and reproaching Israel if they, at the same time, are themselves being trampled?

One final point: Ezekiel 36:3 indicates that Israel will be talked about something terribly by the nations. It says: “Therefore prophesy, and you must say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “For the reason, even for the reason that there has been a lying desolate and a snapping at you from all sides, in order for you to become a possession to the remaining ones of the nations and you continue being talked about with the tongue and there is a bad report among people.”’” Could this ‘bad report’ begin with the probe by Dateline into the pedophile problem in the organization?

You said: “When things don’t go down that way it will be a tremendous reproach for us.”

So true, because you are not looking at it the way Jehovah does. Your leaders are so determined that nothing bad will happen to JWs that they choose to close their eyes to the real application of the scriptures. They say: ‘everything good will happen us and everything bad will happen to them (Christendom, I guess).’ The bible will be fulfilled entirely upon JWs, the ones called by God’s personal name, or ‘the city upon which my name is called.’ You can’t make this fit Christendom.

You said: “So, when Jehovah dissolves our covenant with death during the tribulation, the nations will take note that Jehovah has seemingly abandoned us.”

Seemingly abandoned us? Jeremiah 7:29 says: “Shear off your uncut hair and throw it away, and upon the bare hills raise a dirge, for Jehovah has rejected and will desert the generation with which he is furious.” Isaiah 42:23-25 says: “Who has given Jacob for mere pillage, and Israel to the plunderers? Is it not Jehovah, the One against whom we have sinned, and in whose ways they did not want to walk and to whose law they did not listen? So He kept pouring out upon him rage, his anger, and the strength of war. And it kept consuming him all around, but he took no note, and it kept blazing up against him, but he would lay nothing to heart.” Stubborn people! I think that ‘seemingly’ is a bad choice of word in the face of ‘Jehovah has rejected and will desert.’ Very definitive statements!

If Jehovah dissolves your covenant with death, have you any idea what that means? Some of you will be killed during the great tribulation in spite of what the WTS teaches.

Are you sure that you are not a WT writer? You certainly like to use words that express opinions rather than facts.

bjc

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

bjc2012

You Know:

The Bible is consistent. Jehovah always "disciplines" his own people FIRST...BEFORE dealing out punishment to others.

Jeremiah 25:29 and 1 Peter 4:17 shows this. "Judgment" always "starts" with God's Own Household. It starts there.

It starts with Jehovah's Witnesses, first, before all the nations have to face God.

You failed to make a comment on the citations from Ezekiel I made to you in my last post.

These two Bible accounts I feel, are prophecies, that clearly show the "nations" are to become only, OBSERVERS of the "discipline" meted out to God's People. Only observers.

Actually, the "nations" are to become eyewitnesses of the discipline administered by Jehovah God to His Own People. The "nations" observe and come to "Know Jehovah" by His swift "discipline" upon His Own People. They learn more about Jehovah, from what he actually "allows" to happen to them.

Example:

Ezekiel 36:23 makes the point. It says:

“‘And I shall certainly sanctify my great name, which was being profaned among the nations, which you profaned in the midst of them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah’, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among you before their eyes.’”

You notice that it is ‘before their eyes’, that is the nations, that this is going to occur. They will be onlookers to this discipline and restoration.

Ezekiel 39:27 makes a similar point. It says:

“When I bring them back from the peoples and I actually collect them together out of the lands of their enemies, I will also sanctify myself among them (Israel) before the eyes of many nations.”

The discipline is for Israel and the nations will be onlookers of this discipline.

bjc

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

bjc2012

You Know,

You said: “But, the King of the North is said to come into the Land of Decoration and eventually actually become a squatter in the domain of spiritual Israel. That of course provokes Michael to take care of business.”

When Michael steps in something has changed. Notice that Israel is now called a “mountain of Decoration” not a ‘land of Decoration,’ as when the King of the North first came through. You missed the point that he comes twice. (Daniel 11:41, 45) It’s the second time that he comes upon Israel’s soil that Jehovah takes action against him. That is, after he has disciplined his people (brought about when Jehovah sent the KON the first time) and poured out His blessing so that they can now be called a ‘mountain.’ Isaiah 2:2-4 describes their new condition and their new activity. Notice verse 2 uses the term ‘lifted up above.’ This indicates that true worship is now obvious to everyone and it will not take any ‘door-to-door’ activity to accomplish this. The ‘disturbing reports’ that this king hears have to do with this increased activity of a group of people that he thought he had silenced. (Revelation 13:7, 8) Ezekiel 38:11 also describes their changed condition as “those having no disturbance, dwelling in security without walls and they do not have even bar or doors.”

You said: “The tribulation will be a time of terror and anarchy as well as a time of totalitarian tyranny.”

You still seem to want to make the tribulation affect the entire world and it does not. It is strictly for God’s people. You are vacillating on this issue. It can’t be both. When the tribulation ends, the world will still be standing as it is, but a change will have occurred for God’s people. The rest of the world will have no problem acquiescing to the King of the North as they will willingly get the mark of the beast. That’s why it will be no tribulation for them. Jehovah’s people, though, have to fight against this or loose their standing with Him. One-third will fight, the rest will not. Therein lies the infighting within the organization. The two-thirds are the one who will say “ Who is like the wild beast and who can do battle with it?” - Revelation 13:4 They will get the mark! And they will try to induce the one-third to do so also.

Ezekiel 36:23 makes a potent point. It says: “‘And I shall certainly sanctify my great name, which was being profaned among the nations, which you profaned in the midst of them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah’, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among you before their eyes.’” You notice that it is ‘before their eyes’, that is the nations, that this is going to occur. They will be onlookers to this discipline and restoration. Ezekiel 39:27 makes a similar point. It says: “When I bring them back from the peoples and I actually collect them together out of the lands of their enemies, I will also sanctify myself among them (Israel) before the eyes of many nations.” The discipline is for Israel and the nations will be onlookers of this discipline.

You said: “I won’t go so far as to use the word “apostate.”

You have to because the portion of Daniel 11:32 that you did not quote indicates such. It says: “And those who are acting wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words.” You see two distinct groups outlined in this verse, those who are acting wickedly against the covenant and those knowing their God. Now the covenant spoken of here is the New Covenant. Who have we been taught are the only ones in this covenant? The only ones who can act wickedly against this covenant then have to be those who are in the covenant, right? I absolutely don’t agree that this teaching that this covenant is for the anointed only, but it is what the WTS teaches. So, if we make application based on what they teach, who is the finger pointing to? Yes, the so-called ‘anointed.’ In these last days, for you to acknowledge that there are ‘anointed’ ones acting wickedly against the covenant is definitely a bitter pill to swallow.

Calling a ‘spade a spade’ it is the leadership that is being persuaded or polluted by the King of the North. He will be dealing with the leaders in order to get the rank and file in line. And they will succeed in getting two-thirds of their followers to fall in line.

You said: “They had some big problems, apostasy in the congregations was mentioned several times.”

True, but the emphasis is on the leaders or ‘angels’ correcting the problems immediately or Jesus would take action, which would not be a good thing for these ‘angels’ of the applicable congregations. The point is that the problems were not to be allowed to fester and infect all of the congregations as has occurred in the twentieth century. Today’s situation is akin to a ‘woman who hid leaven in three large measures of flour and everything became fermented.’ (Luke 13:21) Problems are not being taken care of because the leadership refuses to acknowledge that they exist, in fact, they are ‘hiding the leaven.’ They insist that they are in ‘a spiritual paradise,’ which is miles from the truth of the matter. Why are they not taking action to clear up the problem of pedophiles in the congregation? Are they waiting for Jesus to do their job for them? When you think about it, maybe the reason Jesus has not acted is that he is not taking the lead in this organization. The situation spoken of at Matthew 28: 20 does not apply today.

You said: “Wars seem to always serve as a pretext for the nations to persecute Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

Can’t be true as there were wars before there were Witnesses. Don’t confuse the next war with the great tribulation. The war is the catalyst to set up the situation that allows the tribulation to occur. You may have noticed that in Matthew chapter 24, events are pretty much in chronological order. The war definitely precedes the problems that occur within the congregations. Revelation chapter 13 also shed some light on this. Verse 3 speaks about one of the heads of the beast ‘as though slaughtered.’ This could only occur during a war. “But its deaths-stroke got healed and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration.” This head of the beast would be healed when the war ended. But notice verse 5. The beast is given authority to act for forty-two months. Verses 6 and 7 show what action he took during this time period. One of them was to wage war with the holy ones, that is, the great tribulation begins. And he does silence them, as the verse shows, it was granted him to ‘conquer them.’ They remain in this deathlike state for ‘3 ½ days.’ These events occur after the war has ended.

You Know, what kind of issue can Jehovah have with Satan, one of his creation? Satan is simply a pawn being used by Jehovah. The fact that Jehovah has already told the end of Satan shows that He is in full control.

bjc

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

bjc2012

You Know,

We have several major points of differences. I believe that apostasy is a national problem, that is, the entire nation is guilty of apostasy. You seem to be leaning toward just some in the organization being guilty. I believe that the great tribulation is Jehovah’s way of disciplining his name people because of their apostasies. In order to accomplish this, He brings the ‘king of the North’ against this people. As Jehovah states at Isaiah 10:6: “Against an apostate nation I shall send him and against the people of my fury I shall issue a command to him, to take much spoil and to take much plunder and to make it a trampling place like the clay of the streets.” Isaiah 9:16, 17 further says: “And those who are leading this people on prove to be the ones causing them to wander; and those of them who are being led on, the ones who are being confused. That is why Jehovah will not rejoice even over their young men, and upon their widows he will have no mercy; because ALL of them are apostates and evildoers and every mouth is speaking senselessness. In view of all this his anger has not turned back, but his hand is stretched out still.”

The problem is not with a few JWs, but it is the ENTIRE nation that is in trouble. Otherwise, there is no point to Zechariah’s prophesy recorded in chapter 13 verses 8 and 9, which reads: “And it must occur in all the land, is the utterance of Jehovah, that two parts of it are what will be cut off and expire; and as for the third part, it will be left remaining in it. And I shall certainly bring the third part through the fire; and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver; and examine them as in the examining of gold. It, for its part, will call upon my name, and I, for my part, will answer it. I will say, ‘It is my people,’ and it, in its turn, will say, ‘Jehovah is my God.” The fire that the third part is being brought through is the ‘great tribulation.’ It is Jehovah’s discipline for apostasy or idolatry. Two thirds of this organization will prove to be unworthy because they will refuse to repent of their idolatries and accept Jehovah’s discipline. They will therefore be ‘cut off from the land.’

Unless I am a part of the ‘king of the north’ I will have no part in administering this discipline. I’m not sure that I understand just what you are describing using terms such as ‘blood-fest.’ The great tribulation is not the end of life as we know it on this planet. I think that you are confusing it with something else, what I don’t know. It is simply Jehovah’s way of getting his people straight, bringing them into a ‘righteous condition’ (Isaiah 60:21) in order that he may use them to gather the people from the nations, that is, to fulfill Isaiah 2:2-4, before he ‘brings to nothing all governments and authority and power.’ (1 Corinthians 15:24)

I know that you are aware of the problems the natural Israelites had as far as their obedience to Jehovah. When Jehovah removed them from their land, it was not because of the disobedience of a few among them. No, the entire nation was guilty of sin and so they were all disciplined, that is those who survived that destruction. And that was the point Daniel was making when he said the words that are recorded at Daniel 9:3-6. He said, in part, “we (the nation) have sinned and done wrong and acted wickedly and rebelled; and there has been a turning aside from your commandments and from your judicial decisions. And we have not listened to your servants the prophets, who have spoken in your name to our kings, our princes and our forefathers and to all the people of the land.” Daniel admitted that this was a national problem even though Daniel personally may not have been guilty of this sin. And this is the same confession that every Jehovah’s Witness today will have to make in order to be considered worthy of being saved, or declared righteous, at the end of this disciplinary period, the great tribulation, to be administered by Jehovah in the near future.

The blessings that you describe will be poured out upon a repentant, humble, disciplined people. The numbers certainly will be nothing like they were before the discipline as 2/3s of them will have been cast off. But that is nothing to Jehovah. He can increase their numbers a thousand fold. And he will. Isaiah 60:22 say so.

Of course, I know why you would not agree with the above statements. If the whole nation is in apostasy, then, either there are no anointed in the organization or if there are, they are in big trouble with Jehovah. And the most logical conclusion is that there are none there. Anointed individuals would never have led the organization into apostasy or idolatry.

What do you mean that the ‘demon hordes are going to go crazy?’ They are already crazy. If you don’t think so, just check out this next war. Again the great tribulation is not for the world of mankind, it is specifically designed for Jehovah’s Witnesses by Jehovah.

bjc

93

LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know in

jw
friends

as the last days wind down to their dramatic conclusion, prophecies that were heretofore obscure, over time have now come more sharply into focus.

one such prophecy that bears review is the oft-quoted verse concerning the "increasing of lawlessness.

" typically the watchtower has pointed to increasing criminal lawlessness in the world as evidence of the fulfillment of that particular feature of the sign of christ's imminent arrival.

bjc2012

You Know,

As usual, you are off the track. I would like for you to explain how those of us who are outside the organization are going to have such an effect on those who are inside the organization? Ask anyone here who have relatives in the organization how effective they are in coercing them into turning against the WTS. Ask me, as I have two daughters still in the organization who have turned their backs on me. I can’t get to first base with them, they are ‘on guard’ against anything that I have to say whenever they deign to speak to me which is very rare. There is a fifty-foot wall between ‘us’ and ‘them’ yet you insist that we are going to have some apocalyptic effect on these JWs. I don’t think so!

The problems that you speak of are going to be caused by those apostates inside the organization, who are called ‘brother or sister,’ those sitting next to my daughters whom they trust, not from me, whom they do not trust. JWs expect persecution from those on the outside. They prepare for it. What they don’t expect is the persecution to come from within, from their own brothers. That’s why Jesus warned at Matthew 24:10 that “…many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.” One betrays his close friend not his enemy. Jesus is more specific at Matthew 10:21, where he says: “Further, brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death.” He is speaking about ‘spiritual family members.’ At Matthew 24:12, Jesus said: “…and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will cool off.” If you check the Greek Interlinear, you will find that the Greek word translated as love in this verse is ‘agape.’ And who is the only group on earth who expresses that type of love? We all know who makes that claim. So the lawlessness that you speak of is occurring within the organization and is caused by, not outsiders as you would like to believe, but by insiders, those who are called brothers. Outsiders could never inflict as much damage on this organization as those on the inside can. (See Acts 20:29, 30)

When Jesus spoke of ‘false prophets arising and misleading many’ in verse 11 of Matthew chapter 24, he would not have been talking about false prophets outside the congregations as there would be no need to use the term ‘arise.’ He is referring to those who would arise from within the congregation and would mislead many worshippers, those on the inside, their own brothers, like you, for instance. (2 Peter 2:1-3)

Why do you think that the emphasis is on a ‘great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now?’ I’ll tell you why. There will be such turmoil in the organization because JWs will be turning on each other, turning each other in to the governmental powers. And it will be a world-wide occurrence. Do you by some chance think that if a governmental agency wanted to know about current JWs, they would ask someone who has not been in the organization for 5 – 10 years? No, they would go to current members who have access to this knowledge, who can go into the file and give them the information that they want. Yes, they would ask the traitorous shepherds within the organization!

The ‘man of lawlessness’ is said to sit down in the ‘temple of the TRUE GOD’ of which you are claiming to be member. So, he sits among your number, your so-called ‘anointed’ brothers, right in the midst of your organization. Is there any wonder that ‘lawlessness will increase?’

You might want to read Zechariah 13:8, 9 to learn just how many JWs Jehovah considers worthy of saving and I think you will be surprised to learn just how many traitors there will be in this organization!

bjc