Posts by bjd4jc

7

History of JW's

by bjd4jc in

jw
friends

i've been doing some research on the jw organization lately and i have found something that i think is very interesting and that everyone ought to think about.

in studying, i have read (in a few different sources) that charles russel (sp?

) founded the organization out of rebellion.

bjd4jc

larc-

Where exactly have you come to this understanding of Russell? The watchtower or other sources?

hippikon-

What exactly are you referring to as "Da Book". I believe this is the first mention of this term on this posting.

21

Questions for the JW Experts on WTS Structure

by Kathy in

jw
friends

i understand that "annointed ones" are no longer appointed to the governing body, because most are no longer alive.

so now, what criteria are used to appoint members to the governing body?.

what is the "chain of command" in the society from the governing body to the average jw living next door?

bjd4jc

I expect that the Society will again change its structure

How many times has this happened? Does anyone have a running count?

ßrian

7

History of JW's

by bjd4jc in

jw
friends

i've been doing some research on the jw organization lately and i have found something that i think is very interesting and that everyone ought to think about.

in studying, i have read (in a few different sources) that charles russel (sp?

) founded the organization out of rebellion.

Why is it that you say I am a fool? If you are not researching things for yourself I would say that YOU are the fool by blindly believing what some organization tells you. That to me is foolishness as well as ignorance.

Brian

7

History of JW's

by bjd4jc in

jw
friends

i've been doing some research on the jw organization lately and i have found something that i think is very interesting and that everyone ought to think about.

in studying, i have read (in a few different sources) that charles russel (sp?

) founded the organization out of rebellion.

bjd4jc

Hello-

I've been doing some research on the JW organization lately and I have found something that I think is very interesting and that everyone ought to think about. In studying, I have read (in a few different sources) that Charles Russel (sp?) founded the organization out of rebellion. To my understanding he grew up in a Congregationalist church which is very strict on the doctrine of Hell. Over time he decided that he didn't like this doctrine as well as a few others and thought that he would come up with his own answers.

To me, this says that he was living a lifestyle of SIN and did not want to give it up so he decided that "there wasn't hell" and that God would not punnish him for his sin. He needed HIS OWN way of escaping his concious because of his prideful rebellion. He did not want to submit to God's laws, so he made up his own laws and they are now "enforced" by the organization known as the Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't know about anyone else, but I personally don't want to follow something that was birthed out of rebellion. The Bible talks about rebellion being as witchcraft.

As for the topic of Hell. Jesus talked more about hell then what he ever talked any other part of the afterlife. And to write these teachings off as "just parables" is to say that Jesus didn't teach the truth. You can look at it from one of two points. Either 1)What Jesus said wasn't really true and therefore he is a liar or 2)What Jesus said is true and there really is a literal Hell. Either there was a rich man and Lazarus or there wasn't and I choose to believe that because Jesus said "There was" that he really meant that There Was. The Bible says that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God so if there wasn't a Hell and we would just be eternally anihilated what would there be to fear? Think about it aside from your watchtower magazine. Research FOR YOURSELF the history of the JW organization. Find out that the VP of the organization openly admitted on the stand - under oath I might add, that they were trying to promote "unity within the body" rather than have everyone know and understand the real truth. Research it outside of the WTBS and you'll see what I am saying is true. Think outside of your little box that they have put you in. Read up on these things. Why all of the sudden in the 1800 would God choose to reveal a "new truth". Before Jesus came, it was predicted centuries before. Nothing in the Bible points to a time after Christ where we would come to understand a "new truth". Christ revealed all that we need when he was on this earth. What was so special about Russel and the following 'leaders' that they could have this truth and authority? NOTHING!!!

Thanks for reading and I hope that you will read FOR YOURSELF

Brian

8

Christ's Resurrection

by bjd4jc in

i know that jw's believe that christ was raised from the dead as an importal spiritual being.

i have a problem with this because jesus said that he would be raised in bodily form.

no jw has been able to explain this scripture to me.

bjd4jc

Jason-

Thanks for your reply. You mention a good point in that the Bible never talks about Jesus doing anything AS a spirit. I have never thought about that. I have always believed in the Bodily resurrection and always will, I just like to hear other sides to things. It really helps me to understand and know why I believe what I believe. Thanks again for your response - I learned something new today!!!

Brian

8

Christ's Resurrection

by bjd4jc in

i know that jw's believe that christ was raised from the dead as an importal spiritual being.

i have a problem with this because jesus said that he would be raised in bodily form.

no jw has been able to explain this scripture to me.

bjd4jc

outnfree-

I don't really have a "story". I like to debate doctrine and to find/refute errors found in the translation/interpretation of the Bible. I am a non-denominational Christian. I attend a church called Open Bible. OB churches are similar in structure and doctrine to the Assembly of God churches. I haven't read you story yet, but I am looking forward to reading it. It'll be my weekend reading... I am very interested in why people leave the JW organization. I am sure there are many stories on this web site about that! I am just a new member to the site and haven't had much time to do reading. There is a girl that I go to school with that is JW. I enjoy having debates and talking about the differences in our doctrines and pointing out to her some things that she over looks. I'll be looking to this site for answers probably to questions that she has.....

thanks for sharing your story..

Brian

8

Christ's Resurrection

by bjd4jc in

i know that jw's believe that christ was raised from the dead as an importal spiritual being.

i have a problem with this because jesus said that he would be raised in bodily form.

no jw has been able to explain this scripture to me.

bjd4jc

outnfree-

I assume from your writing and your name that you are no longer part of the organization - am I correct to assume this? If so, why was it that you left the organization?

Brian

A new Era

by bjd4jc in

has everyone heard what they are calling president clintons era?.......

sex between the bushes....

bjd4jc

Has everyone heard what they are calling President Clintons era?......

Sex between the Bushes....

16

A few question that are leading to some confusion

by anidchick in

i am in the process of becoming a jehovah witnesses, but there were a few areas i was still unsure about and i was hopin i could get some answers:.

) what is the exact view of jesus?.

) how is the view of the whole trinity with god, holy ghost, son seen?.

bjd4jc

Dawn-

The Bible proves that Jesus is God. This is the key teaching of the Bible, which is clearly taught in the Authorized Version of the Bible. Because Jehovah's Witnesses have no accepted this doctrine, they have prepared their own translation, which greatly obscures this basic Biblical truth. But, even in their New World Translation, this doctrine can be clearly seen by simply examining the Bible's teaching on who God and Jesus are. If every quality and attribute possessed by God is also possessed by Jesus, then Jesus Himself must be God.

I'll begin with a scriptural comparison of the the Bible says Jesus is and who the Bible says that God (or Jehovah) is.

Who Will Judge us?
"For Jehovah is our judge," Isa. 33:22
"For God himself is Judge." Psalms 50:6
"I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is destined to judge the living and the dead." 2 Timoty 4:1

Who is the sheperd?
"Jehovah is my Shepherd." Psalms 23:1
"I (Jesus) am the fine shepherd." John 10:11

Who is the light of the world?
"Jehovah is my light..." Psalms 27:1
"... although I dwell in the darkness, Jehovah will be a light to me." Micha 7:8
"Therefore Jesus spoke again to them, saying: 'I am the light of the world.'" John 8:12

Whose judgement seat will be appear before?
"For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of God." Rom. 14:10
"For we must all be made manifest before the judgement seat of the Christ." 2 Cor. 5:10.

Whose name do we use in baptism?
"And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying... Go therefore and make disciples of peopole of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit." Matt. 28:18
"Peter (said) to them: 'Repent and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ..." Acts 2:38.
"On hearing this, the got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:5.

Who sent the Holdy Spirit?
"And I will request the Father and he will give y ou another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of truth." John 14:16-17.
"When the helper arrives that I will send you from the Father, the spirit of the truth." John 15:26.

Who is the King of the Jews?
"This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel..." Isa. 44:6
"Jehovah is our King;" Isa. 33:22
"Also, they posted above his head the charge against him, in writing: "This is Jesus the King of the Jews." Matt. 27:37

Who raised Jesus from the dead?
"whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead," Acts 3:15
"through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him up from the dead," Galatians 1:1
"In answer Jesus said to them: 'Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' (21) but he was talking about the temple of his body." John 2:19, 21

Jehovah and Jesus the Creator
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Gen. 1:1
"Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God." Heb. 3:4
"But with reference to the Son... And: 'You, O Lord, founded the earth at the beginning, and the heavens are works of your hands." Heb 1:8&10.

Jehovah and Jesus are "Lord of Lords"
"For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, mighty and fear-inspiring God." Deut. 10:17
".. and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are," 1 Cor. 8:6

Jehovah and Jesus are the first and the Last
"This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies: 'I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.'" Isa. 44:6
"'I am the Alpha and the Omega,' says Jehovah God, 'the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.'" Rev. 1:8
"And when I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand upon me and said: 'Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and <b>I became dead</b>, but look! I am living for ever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.'" Rev. 1:17-18 and Rev 22:12-13, 20

Jehovah and Jesus are "One God"
"I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God." Isa 45:5
"For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us, and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Father for eternity, Prince of Peace..." Isa. 9:6
"... and they will certainly support themselves upon Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, in trueness. A mere remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God" Isa. 10:20-21
See now that I-I am he. And there are no gods together with me. Deut 32:39
"'You are my witnesses,' is the utterance of Jehovah ... Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none." Isa 43:10
"For even though There are those who are called 'gods', whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many 'gods' and many 'lords', there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him, and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him." 1 Cor. 8:5-6

Jehovah and Jesus are the Savior
"I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior." Isa 43:11
"... is is not I, Jehovah, besides whom there is no other God; a righteous God and a Savior, there being none excepting me?" Isa. 45:21
"let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene... there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." Acts 4:10,12
"... under command of our Saviour, God;" Tit. 1:3
"... God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior." Tit. 1:4
"... so that they may adorn the teaching of our Savior, God, in all things" Tit. 2:10
"... our Savior Christ Jesus" Tit. 2:13

This is by no means the end of the list. The list of who Christ is goes on and on. Every attribute of God is also ascribed to Christ. Therefore, Jesus Christ Himself must be more than a mere man. Men do not possess all the qualities of God. Only God Himself can possess all the qualities of God. Therefore, Jesus Christ Himself must be the One True God. Though the JWs deny this, their own Bible clearly teaches it, as does the King James Bible and every other translation.

I hope this has provided some insight on the trinity. I have not covered the Holy Spirit in this post but there is evidence that the Holy Spirit is part of the "Triune God". And, by "Triune God" and I don't mean that God is some 3-headed being or monster.

One final word...
"Whosoever ... abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God." 2 John 9

Brian

8

Christ's Resurrection

by bjd4jc in

i know that jw's believe that christ was raised from the dead as an importal spiritual being.

i have a problem with this because jesus said that he would be raised in bodily form.

no jw has been able to explain this scripture to me.

bjd4jc

I know that JW's believe that Christ was raised from the dead as an importal spiritual being. I have a problem with this because Jesus said that he would be raised in BODILY form. No JW has been able to explain this scripture to me. It is found in John Chapter 2. Starting in v. 18 it reads:

(KJV)
v18.
The answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

v.19
Jesus answered and said unto them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

v.20
Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

v.21
But he spake of the temple of his body.

v.22
When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Now, to me this clearly states that his resurrection was going to take place in bodily form.

Another scripture that supports this view is John 20. I'll start in verse 26.

(KJV)
v.26
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace be unto you."

v.27
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither they finger, and behold MY hands; and reach hither thy hands, and thrust it into MY side: and be not faithless, be believing.

v.28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

In this scripture Jesus refers to his hands and "MY hands" and his side as "MY side". So, Jesus was talking about his BODY not his spirit because spirits do not have flesh and bones.

No JW has been able to provide a sensible explanation to me about these scriptures. This is a foundational doctrine for not only the JWs but for most other Christian denominations. There must be a right or a wrong and it obviously couldn't have happened both ways.

I have not been satisfied by the scriptures that JWs have given to me concerning the topic of the ressurection. The first one provided to me was 1 Peter 3:18. It reads (KJV): "For Christ also hat once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened BY the Spirt." This verse merely states that he was raised BY the Spirit, not as a Spirit or in the Spirit.

The next one is Romans 6:9. It reads (KJV): "Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hat no more dominion over him." I don't know what this scripture has to do with what form Christ was raised in and no one has been able to draw the parallel either...... go figure!

If anyone has any response to these points, I am interested...