i've been free of the jws for many years now and have a question about kh finance.. 1. is it true that all khs belong to the wt now?
2. when remodeling is done who pays for it?.
3. how are utilities paid?
Incognito, I guess it was not clear that I was only talking about laws in the US, that I did not know what congregations in other countries laws were.
I pointed to the IRS tax laws in the US regarding religious non-profits not saying they were valid in other countries.
since when has it become cool to pray for the gb?
i noticed that at the begining of my fade back in 2015, it had already been there for a good while and was already getting on my nerves.
i means, i grew up in it, but can't remember much further than the 90s and i don't remember this being always in the payers.
I noticed when searching the WOL, that the WTS comments do not specifically say to pray for the GB in a public prayer, but rather seems to leave the door open to individual jws to include prayers for the GB in their personal prayers. Thus the GB seems to be implying or opening the door to doing so in public prayers by not specifically mentioning public prayers.
Prayers at conventions/assemblies are not just random thoughts, but the prayer givers are "guided" as to what they should say. That is why public prayers sound like the one praying is saying the prayer for the audience's benefit.
go- teach.
par.1 : marching orders given to 500 attendees, none of them anointed, but 11 partakers, jesus taught and served people with an "earthly hope" and the commission to go was not as wt now claims a mandate to the gb members; the os only being supposed supporters.
4) new disciple stops drinking.
I can't speak to the thinking of the WTS for making this one time application of the 12 tribes being non-anointed people. But note the buzz word "evidently" which the WTS uses to leave an opening for changing this statement later on in their publications. (Matthew 19:28, see also Luke 22:30) If you can figure out this out-of-both-sides of their mouths teaching, let me know.
But I did find this in 2008 (before 2011 quote in my post above)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008049#h=16:0-16:693
19:28—What is represented by “the twelve tribes of Israel” that will be judged? They do not represent the 12 tribes of spiritual Israel. (Gal. 6:16; Rev. 7:4-8) The apostles to whom Jesus was speaking were going to be part of spiritual Israel, not judges of its members. Jesus made ‘a covenant with them for a kingdom,’ and they were to be ‘a kingdom and priests to God.’ (Luke 22:28-30; Rev. 5:10) Those of spiritual Israel are to “judge the world.” (1 Cor. 6:2) Hence, “the twelve tribes of Israel,” whom those on the heavenly thrones judge, evidently represent the world of mankind who are outside that royal, priestly class, as pictured by the 12 tribes on Atonement Day.—Lev., chap. 16.
Also in 1987, the WTS gave this very convoluted explanation that probably went over the heads of the jw readers.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200271355/227/8
see also 2010
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010202#h=8:0-12:784
and even in 1964 the concept that the 12 tribes here were not anointed Christians but those who would stay on earth.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1964288?q=Luke+22%3A30&p=par
---As far as I can tell, this is the only time the WTS makes an application identifying the "12 tribes of Israel" as not being those Christians going to heaven.
i was just thinking about a couple of jw`s who came to my door a few weeks ago and they had no idea who charles taze russell was one woman was in her 40`s and the other was in her late 20`s if i`m any judge of female ages.. and neither of them had any idea of the religions early history or what they taught and what they believed in back then.. and one of the main reasons for that i believe is because the wt?jw religion continually revise their past history according to whatever the current beliefs are held.. if you compare what was believed and taught back in the 1880`s with what is believed and taught today you would find no comparison.. it has completely changed ,sometimes in a subtle way,but no the less changed.. the excuse of "the light is getting brighter and brighter as the day draws near " doesn`t cut it when you consider they stick to the i.b.s.a.
not the jehovah`s witnesses , were chosen as approved by jesus christ as the "faithful and discreet slave class" in 1919 for what they believed and taught back then as the i.b.s.a.
and not the jehovah`s witnesses.. and now the jehovah`s witnesses today do not believe what the international bible students association taught and believed back then in 1919... so how could jehovah`s witnesses today be approved by jehovah / christ jesus as the faithful and discreet slave class when they reject what was approved in 1919 ?
smiddy3, in a WT study article in 2017 the WTS said the following. This is proof that jws do not really read, study or listen at the weekly WT study. The WTS mentions Russell, several times each year, I checked only back to 2006. When the history book Proclaimers was published in 1993, required readings from the book were scheduled on the theocratic ministry school each week. Since then, there is no incentive for jws to read that book. (Most jws today cannot explain the WT teaching of 1914 or overlapping generations. History has even less meaning to them.
2017
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2017283?q=taze&p=sen
8 In the late 19th century, Charles Taze Russell and some of his associates endeavored to reestablish true Christian worship. To help them disseminate Bible truth in various languages, Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society was legally incorporated in 1884, with Brother Russell as president.* He was an outstanding student of the Bible, and he fearlessly exposed as false such doctrines as the Trinity and the immortality of the soul. He discerned that Christ would return invisibly and that “the appointed times of the nations” would end in 1914. (Luke 21:24) Brother Russell devoted his time, energy, and money unsparingly to share these truths with others. Clearly, at that pivotal time, Brother Russell was used by Jehovah and the head of the congregation.
9 Brother Russell did not seek glory from humans. In 1896, he wrote: “We want no homage, no reverence, for ourselves or our writings; nor do we wish to be called Reverend or Rabbi. Nor do we wish that any should be called by our name.” He later stated: “This is not man’s work.”
10. (a) When did Jesus appoint “the faithful and discreet slave”? (b) Relate how the Governing Body has been progressively distinguished from the Watch Tower Society.
10 In 1919, three years after Brother
Russell’s death, Jesus appointed “the faithful and discreet slave.” For
what purpose? To give his domestics “food at the proper time.” (Matt. 24:45) Even in those early years, a small
group of anointed brothers who served at headquarters in Brooklyn, New York,
prepared and distributed spiritual food to Jesus’ followers
many moons ago i posted a thread about the need for superheroes.
today they dominate the movie industry but at they have always been top sellers.
in that earlier thread i mentioned my love of the hulk as a boy, he dealt with seemingly unstoppable foes with sheer determination and superhuman strength, kinda like shamgar of the book of judges.
peacefulpete,
This illustrates how jws and other people accept what is said in the bible. Why, because the bible is inspired of god. And how do we know that the bible is inspired of god. Because the bible says it is.
I appreciate the research you do to show how unreliable historical records can be depending on who is writing it.
History written by the people who were writing about their own history
History written by people who were enemies of those people
History written long after those events when no one is left alive who lived or witnessed them or to confirm them.
Historians trying to find any harmony between the two
History has be rewritten over time as well.
It would hard to be a historian living under the rule of the king they are writing about.
A related point, Galileo find out why writing about the scientific things he discovered about the solar system, was not well received the the Catholic Church who had their own unscientific ideas. As time passed and the hold the Catholic Church had on science waned and other people confirmed his findings, things started moving forward with more accuracy. But history cannot be proved in the way science can.
Thus, those examining historical records, have to read a great deal of information from many sources and determine what is reliable based on other historical records.
PS People today are woefully ignorant of current history that they lived through let alone the history from 100 years ago or thousands of years ago.
i've been free of the jws for many years now and have a question about kh finance.. 1. is it true that all khs belong to the wt now?
2. when remodeling is done who pays for it?.
3. how are utilities paid?
incognito, thanks for sharing that. That is the requirement for religious non-profits that the local congregation does not retain the funds received and the "ownership" ultimately lay with the WTS. The parent corporation, the WTS, must though follow the IRS rules regarding how the WTS handles assets etc., or lose their tax-free status.
Although KH ownership was initially under control of 3 local trustees, usually elders, I understand WT has long required specific wording in each congregation' incorporation documents that specified ownership of each KH is to be transferred to WT if the owning congregation is deleted or otherwise ceases to exist.
since when has it become cool to pray for the gb?
i noticed that at the begining of my fade back in 2015, it had already been there for a good while and was already getting on my nerves.
i means, i grew up in it, but can't remember much further than the 90s and i don't remember this being always in the payers.
jws tend to copy what they see or hear being done at the assemblies/conventions. Almost always the prayers have something regarding their god blessing the GB. jws want to be seem as holy as the GB and their representatives so ape what they do. I remember when the CO used to put a table off to the side of the stage at the circuit assembly facing the ministry school students, so he could give counsel face to face rather than from the row in the front.
Then ministry school overseers starting aping/copying that by putting a table off the the side of the stage in the KH, giving counsel from there (no direction from the GB to do that, just started doing it on their own). Finally, the GB had the COs tell each congregation not to do that any more.
Monkey see, monkey do.
since when has it become cool to pray for the gb?
i noticed that at the begining of my fade back in 2015, it had already been there for a good while and was already getting on my nerves.
i means, i grew up in it, but can't remember much further than the 90s and i don't remember this being always in the payers.
Quakers in the US refer to themselves as Friends. I found it confusing when older jws (and their imitators) used that word in regard to jws.
“Quaker” emerged as a derisive nickname for Fox and others who shared his beliefs. The group eventually embraced the term, although their official name became Religious Society of Friends. Members are referred to as Friends or Quakers.
does this silly bible story make any sense after you take off your rose-colored glasses?.
moses comes down from the mountain with two freshly made tablets of stone written with the finger of god.
one commandment on the stone tablet reads '' you must not kill/murder.
smiddy3, and add this so-called wisdom from the GB:
The GB says that the baby died because it would have died if Bathsheba had been put to death for adultery while she was still pregnant as the law code said she should be.
But Bathsheba lived although she was not ever mentioned as having been outstanding showing mercy to others, as the GB says was the reason David was not put to death for adultery and murder as the law code said he should be.
I found as I finally starting reading all the verse(s) in the bible, not just snippets the GB quoted, I starting having many questions about the GB "interpretation" of these verses.
go- teach.
par.1 : marching orders given to 500 attendees, none of them anointed, but 11 partakers, jesus taught and served people with an "earthly hope" and the commission to go was not as wt now claims a mandate to the gb members; the os only being supposed supporters.
4) new disciple stops drinking.
waton, thanks for sharing that sidepoint. I forgot that change:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011683#h=3:428-4:429
But consider the special reference to Israel’s 12 tribes that is found at Matthew 19:28.
Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
