Posts by slimboyfat

32

How many are PIMO ??

by Phizzy in

i know we cannot answer this, how many are physically in, mentally out (pimo), but i heard an amazing piece of news the other day.. an ex-p.o and ex-elder, a long time regular pioneer, and when i knew him a stalwart believer, went for a drink with another jw who has actually left, but is not df or anything.. in the course of conversation he came out with this bombshell "well, i am actually an atheist now, i just go along to keep my wife happy".. i also heard of a number of youngsters that i know personally who are simply living their life as they want, whilst making sure they don't get df'd for family and social reasons.. if as it seems the pimo's are a huge number, could there be a huge " awakening" where they all realize they are in a huge group, and they all say " eff it, lets call it a day on all the jw s**t ".

?.

wishful thinking, but.....just possible ?.

slimboyfat

It's a difficult thing to define because when do questions spill over into doubts and when do doubts spill over into unbelief? It's a long continuum that most people leaving finding themselves travelling along over a period of time. Some people can even go back and forward in their mind as circumstances and focus change.

Plus it's even more complicated than a continuum because there is an infinite variety of accommodation and negotiation among JWs and their acceptance and rejection of Watchtower truth claims. Some JWs even think the GB are not hardline enough (one elder told me blood fractions should not be allowed and the GB made a mistake) which is a different sort of mental deviation than we more commonly refer to. Others might quietly reject the flood, accept evolution, not practice shunning, celebrate birthdays, not dontate any money or actively encourage others to join, yet in some sense still adhere to the religion. Are they mentally out, or somewhere in beteeen?

There also seem to be a number of abusers who cynically use the religion to abuse others. These people are also "mentally out" in a sense, although not in any sense we can readily identify with or approve.

So it's altogether a very complicated concept and of course impossible to quantify. Except perhaps to say that, in some difficult to define sense, the number of people who are "mentally out" appears to be growing.

32

How many are PIMO ??

by Phizzy in

i know we cannot answer this, how many are physically in, mentally out (pimo), but i heard an amazing piece of news the other day.. an ex-p.o and ex-elder, a long time regular pioneer, and when i knew him a stalwart believer, went for a drink with another jw who has actually left, but is not df or anything.. in the course of conversation he came out with this bombshell "well, i am actually an atheist now, i just go along to keep my wife happy".. i also heard of a number of youngsters that i know personally who are simply living their life as they want, whilst making sure they don't get df'd for family and social reasons.. if as it seems the pimo's are a huge number, could there be a huge " awakening" where they all realize they are in a huge group, and they all say " eff it, lets call it a day on all the jw s**t ".

?.

wishful thinking, but.....just possible ?.

slimboyfat

There was an all time peak of 743,586 PIMO during the 2017 service year, which was a 5% increase on the previous year.

58

March 2018 Broadcast - When quotes become rumors

by Listener in

this months broadcast is presented by losche and he discusses the need for trust in the fds.

the following is transcribed from the 12.30 mark.. satan also has the scheme to spread rumors about our brothers including the faithful slave.

the method of spreading rumors is not new.

slimboyfat

Sometimes a bad defence is worse than no defence at all. The shallow reasoning of this broadcast is probably liable to disconcert more JWs than is reassures.

122

CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/dpq7j8lkc98.

slimboyfat

This thread mentioned that Jon Mitchell died years ago. Did he have children?

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/245441/governing-body-secretary-time-ray-franz

58

March 2018 Broadcast - When quotes become rumors

by Listener in

this months broadcast is presented by losche and he discusses the need for trust in the fds.

the following is transcribed from the 12.30 mark.. satan also has the scheme to spread rumors about our brothers including the faithful slave.

the method of spreading rumors is not new.

slimboyfat

Sometimes a bad argument made in support of your position is worse than no argument at all. I am sure this type of nonsense is liable to disconcert more JWs than it reassures.

122

CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/dpq7j8lkc98.

slimboyfat

I didn't say anyone owed me an explanation. I didn't think the simple observation that a Trinitarian countercult writer was chosen to write the introduction is the end of the world. But it is interesting, given Franz's opposition to the Trinity and the Christian countercult and, I thought, worthy of note at least, if nothing more. So I initially made a very brief comment about it. It perhaps indicates that the current copyright holder is closer to the Christian mainstream than Ray Franz was himself, to spell out the obvious implication. Ray Franz could easily have become a celebrity among countercult Evangelcials if he wanted but he chose to have no ties. These distinctions may not be important to many of us but they clearly were important to Ray Franz. Whether in turn that should be important to the copyright owner or to the reader is another question. And again, not the end of the world, but interesting for discussion, which I thought was the point of the forum. Black and white thinking I guess is what dictates that no observation even slightly contrary to the prevailing mood is viewed as legitimate. If I'm going to be attacked for making that simple observation, then I might as well point out the obvious that politeness may otherwise inhibit: the long delay was unnecessary, the additions add little, that ebooks can be free if wide distribution is your main goal, in addition to the initial observation that Ray Franz himself avoided association with the countercult because he did not share their Trinitarian opposition to JWs.

122

CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/dpq7j8lkc98.

slimboyfat

The worst thing about that naos controversy was the WT article that cited verses where the word wasn't used. And when pointed out didn't correct it.

JWs have basically avoided the issue for the last 40 years.

122

CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/dpq7j8lkc98.

slimboyfat

I would ask and accept help from people who know how to publish ebooks and print on demand books. Such help was offered by people on this forum and elsewhere. This could have been done within weeks at the most. Instead we were told the matter was in hand and would be published within weeks. I would publish ISofCF too, and save needless energy making a new introduction and other changes. You could do that later in another edition if you really want, if it takes years. Personally I would not charge $9.99 for the ebook either - unless I needed the income I suppose. Because I didn't write the book and I would want as many people as possible to read it.

122

CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/dpq7j8lkc98.

slimboyfat

Evidently Ray Franz felt it was more important for his work to fall into the hands of his trusted friends than to hand it off to a younger and more pro-active party.

Ray Franz, as I recall, made no provision for the publication or transfer of the rights to his books after his death.

His wife naturally inherited those rights since he died first. It was Cynthia's decision leave the rights to her friends in her will, not Ray Franz. Ray Franz's apparent lack of concern about what happened to his books was much commented on at the time.

122

CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/dpq7j8lkc98.

slimboyfat

I think that Ray Franz's intention to include the material does not equal permission from the copyright owner in law. I suspect Ray Franz would have made sure this was in order if he had got round to it himself. Has the current publisher done so?

The reasons for cynicism are these.

1. There is no good reason why the book could not have continued to be published when Cynthia died in 2013, in the original format, just as it had continued to be published in 2010 when Ray Franz died.

2. We were promised at the time that the book would be available within weeks. Instead it has taken nearly half a decade. Why?

3. It is still not actually available in print yet. It's promised for a few weeks' time, but we've been here before. I hope it does get released, but on track record we shouldn't count our chickens yet.

4. $9.99 in certainly not expensive, but it's not as cheap as it might be either, for an ebook if your main intention is the widest circulation possible. Unfortunately between the delays, changes, and ebook charges, it seems fair to conclude that wide distribution, as quickly as possible, does not appear to have been the priority of the copyright owner.

5. It's terrible that anyone suffers illness or through the illness of others. But to deflect any valid criticism for poor decisions over many years on that basis is what is cynical.