Posts by slimboyfat

52

Jephthah's Daughter

by cantleave in

i have read somewhere that jephthah's daughter did not really go into temple service but was a victim of ritual sacrifice.

the bible says that after weeping over her virginity that the maidens would visit her annually.

how could they visit her if she was killed?.

slimboyfat

What's that funny Watchtower quote again? "Everyone knows there are errors in the Bible" or something like that. I can't find it.

110

If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

by nowwhat? in

i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.

once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.

and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.

slimboyfat

Facts don't speak for themselves. That's why I assemble them and deploy them in a pleasing and compelling fashion.

JWs are in the process of collapse. Whether this will involve sudden dramatic events or a more gradual unwinding I don't know. But it is difficult for me to understand how anyone can't look at the current position of Watchtower and not see that they are experiencing an existential crsis. They don't close dozens of branches, end the yearbook, abolish the magazines in their traditional format, fire tens of thousands of employees, publicly beg for money on their channel, downsize headquarters, sell off assets to keep afloat, and much more besides,.. just for the fun of it.

Can they work a way out of the crisis? I guess it's possible. But it doesn't seem likely. They relied on book sales in the past. Now they are living off sales of their property assets. What when that dries up?

There are so many respects in which JWs are in a worse position than other churches financially, organisationally, policy and teachings. They are almost primed for collapse by the unique combination of severe challenges they are facing.

7

Change of the 2 Baptismal Questions Soon?

by The Fall Guy in

q1 - on the basis of the sacrifice of jesus christ, have you dedicated yourself to god & the governing body?.

q2 - do you understand that your dedication and baptism as one of jehovah's witnesses identifies your belief the wtbts's literature is equal in authority with the bible?

having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition sufficiently brain-dead to undergo christian jw.borg baptism..

slimboyfat

They have a loyalty oath in effect whenever the elders corner a doubter and ask if they still believe in the faithful slave.

110

If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

by nowwhat? in

i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.

once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.

and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.

slimboyfat

The WTS is a former publishing house that is currently selling its assets to survive. That can’t last forever. Plus lawsuits, plus growth in poor countries and decline in rich countries, and so on... it is in a far worse position than other churches.

And as a matter of fact the Catholic Apostolic Church collapsed despite being rich because of its end time doctrine. It still has assets but no members.

It is simply a non-sequitur to say that because JWs haven’t collapsed in the past therefore they won’t collapse in the future. Or that because it had the resources to survive in 1925 that it will have the resources to survive the current crisis. These are bad logical errors.

110

If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

by nowwhat? in

i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.

once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.

and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.

slimboyfat

And did the WTS collapse then?

That’s a stupid argument, if I may say so. The WTS very nearly did collapse after 1925 in particular. The fact that they escaped on that ocassion, or other ocassions, does not make them invincible forever, no more than me avoiding dying on various ocassions in the past means I will never die in the future. The relevant facts are that religions decline and collapse all the time (I cited about a dozen examples) and all the evidence indicates JWs are set to follow.

110

If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

by nowwhat? in

i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.

once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.

and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.

slimboyfat

Probably the best objective measures of JW growth are census results and both Canada and Australia show clear declines. If we had comparable data from other countries we would have a clearer picture of what is really happening.

Many countries in Europe are declining by Watchtower's own measurement too. Especially in Germany and Eastern Europe congregation numbers and publishers are down.

Even growth in Africa has not prevented worldwide figures dropping. JWs have not experienced such bad figures outside of the prophetic failures in 1914, 1925 and 1975. And never has such a drop lasted so long or looked so likely to continue and get worse.

The collapse deniers can continue for a while with their denials. But time and facts are not on their side.

18

Transferring Congregations

by optimisticskeptic in

what is included in the publisher cards and other information when you transfer from one congregation to another?

i was privately reproved and may be moving to a congregation where there are brothers i rather not know why i was privately reproved.

is the fact i was privately reproved visible but not the reason why?

slimboyfat

Nasty people with nasty rules. But I've got an idea. How about just approaching one of your current elders and saying this:

"Can I talk with you please? You know I was reproved for [........] a while ago? Well I may be moving congregations soon and I wanted to ask the elders from this congregation if you would not mention the reproof to the new congregation. It happened a while ago now, the matter is behind me and I would rather forget it. It would really help me emotially and spiritually if the elders could reassure me this matter is in the past and I don't need to think about it in the new congregation. Thank you for listening to my concern."

Who knows, they might appreciate the candour. And if not they are Pharisaical idiots who would likely have gossiped about you anyway.

110

If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

by nowwhat? in

i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.

once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.

and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.

slimboyfat

shepherdless means the new branch at Chelmsford

Watchtower will abandon it, like the Romans before them.

https://youtu.be/LTiGC7WPacw

27

JW Decline: additional data from Aust 2016 census

by shepherdless in

about 9 months ago, i started this thread:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6298997348106240/aust-2016-census-observations-jws-getting-older-more-kids-leaving-30-group-arent-returning.

i have had a little spare time, so i thought i would present some of the data in a more user friendly manner, with some additional detail.. 1. median age.

slimboyfat

The vast majority of JWs I know share two features:

1. They or their parents (or other relative) joined JWs in the period 1950 to 1980.

2. They joined shortly after moving home to a new location.

I think the postwar period provided a concatenation of circumstances that fostered JW growth, but the chief factors were disruptive migrations prompted by the labour market, combined with secularisation which weakened ties with the traditional churches.

The typical JW convert was a newly married housewife who had recently moved to a new location in the postwar years. They were not religious enough to instantly join a new church in their new home, but they were sufficiently religiously inclined to be receptive to JWs who called at the door. She often brought in her husband, children and other family, whose children, grandchildren, and extended families form the core of most congregations today.

110

If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

by nowwhat? in

i have to make a token appearance at the k.h.

once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.

and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.

slimboyfat

Look at the following threads from 9-10 years ago which discussed it:

That's true there has long been an expectation on this forum that JWs would collapse or severely decline. And I was very skeptical. But the facts have changed and the indications of collapse have multiplied. Many countries are now in statistical decline even by Watchtower's own measure. Census results from Australia, Canada and elsewhere look even worse. Dozens of branches have closed, KHs and assembly halls sold, congregations merged. Publications have been abruptly abandoned in the face of financial crisis. Exposure of very poor abuse policies is beginning to go mainstream. This list is by no means exhaustive. The facts on the ground have changed since ten years ago, and decline is well underway by any reasonable assessment.

I like to compare JWs with the Catholic Apostolic Church and the New Apostolic Church. Look them up on Wikipedia. In the case of the Catholic Apostolic Church it became extinct within 100 years because of stubborn adherence to eschatological doctrine (overlapping generation anyone?). In the case of the New Apostolic Church they have only survived a significant prophetic disconfirmarion (search Botschaft New Apostolic Church) by denouncing parts of their history and implementing serious reform. It is not clear JW leadership is capable or willing to reform in this manner.