Posts by slimboyfat

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

slimboyfat

Okay I can see why you would think that from what I have said, so let me be clear.

I think there is good reason to believe that some sort of God exists. When I say that what I mean is I believe that an intelligence behind the existence of the universe seems at least as good, and probably a better explanation for the universe than no God at all.

So that’s the base level, you could say agnostic leaning toward believing in God.

But on top of that I don’t rule out the God of the Bible being a fair representation of the God of the universe. How come? Because it’s quite a complex and thoughtful portrayal of the almighty. New atheists take all the problematic anti humanist texts of the Bible and say God can’t be like that or is wicked. But isn’t it possible that God, if he exists, doesn’t conform to modern humanist standards? What if God has less regard for humans than we would like, is in many ways incomprehensible, views his worship as paramount and so on. You might not like God to be so. But there is nothing to say God must be as we would like him to be.

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

slimboyfat

So you agree with the article you posted or not? What was the point of the thread again?

We’d all like to think we are rational people and make decisions on the basis of facts, evidence and logic. But the best science on decision making says otherwise. We make decisions on the basis of 1) what other people are doing and 2) what authority figures say. And when we look back at the decisions we have made we make sense of them in terms of facts, evidence and logic.

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

slimboyfat

No, this is the point. You’d think it’s the information that is making people leave but it’s not. It’s the fact that people see other people reading information and leaving that has the effect of making people leave. It’s the herd mentality.

If a critical mass of JWs become convinced that people are leaving in droves and the Watchtower game is up, then the dam will burst. I think we are near that, or possibly even in the middle of it right now.

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

slimboyfat

Sometimes in these discussions it seems as if we assume that unless there is an objective or absolute basis for morality, then it is empty or there is no point.

It is as if morality is either an exact form of knowledge like mathematics, or else it’s just a matter of opinion like your favourite colour. I tend to think it’s something in between those extremes. We can give good reasons and arguments in favour of moral positions, but we can’t prove absolutes. I can live with that.

And Cofty I already know you don’t believe God exists. You think I would still be unsure where you stand on this?

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

slimboyfat

There can be lots of bases for moral stances. We can rely on tradition, instinct, aesthetics, authority, religion, ethical systems such as utilitarianism and so on. So there are lots of different ways of constructing your system of ethics.

But is there an objective or absolute answer to ethical questions? Without God personally I don’t see how there can be. God gets to decide what is right and wrong. If not God, then what?

4

looking for old lapel badges

by blownaway in

other than ebay anyone have any idea of where to look?.

slimboyfat

Is one with a Unitarian insert any use?

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

slimboyfat

While it is true that facts and logic don’t change people's mind, that’s not to say that nothing will change people’s mind.

Social proof and arguments from authority often persuade people to reevaluate their position.

So the most effective things to say to JWs may include: JW growth has slowed down dramatically in recent years and many are leaving the organisation after finding information online. Or, the royal commission in Australia found that JWs are very poor at protecting children. In fact they found over a thousand cases of abuse and not a single one was reported to the police.

22

Do You Typically Accept The Press As Being Unbiased And Honest?

by minimus in

jw
friends

there is more “ yellow journalism “ than ever before!

newscasters and writers that you thought were trustworthy often miss the mark.. do you generally accept the “news” as being honest?.

slimboyfat

The anti-Russia bias on the BBC is getting quite alarming actually.

The other day Radio 4 informed me that “flat out denial is Putin’s favourite tactic”, and that, “offering to help with investigations in other countries is straight out of the Russian playbook”.

I don't know if those assemments are fair or not, but I wish BBC would stick to reporting what happens rather than telling me what to think about it.

They tell us so often on the BBC that Russia is behind the chemical attacks it really makes me wonder if they protest too much.

24

Elon Musk causing an uproar on Twitter

by Tallon in

elon musk has called one of the thai cave rescue divers a 'paedo' on twitter.. this could prove to be a very costly post should the diver sue him for defamation.. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/15/elon-musk-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-pedo-twitter.

slimboyfat

Elon Musk, is he the perfume guy?

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

slimboyfat

Facts and logic don’t convince people. I’m glad you’re coming round!

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5674413485719552/how-do-we-know-jws-wrong-how-do-we-convince-others-jws-wrong-logic-versus-persuasion