this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
That the Father "taught" the Son does not mean that He is lesser in knowledge,
I think it means exactly that. You can’t teach somebody something unless you know more than they do. If you can claim otherwise then we might as well give up on language and logic altogether.
this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
Not going to dignify inevitable “why are you talking about something I don’t find interesting or useful” posts as anything other than some kind of unwitting cry for help. I don’t go around pointing out threads a don’t find interesting. I just don’t read them. If you are so insecure you can’t bear the thought of other people talking about things you don’t agree with you’ve got your own issues to attend to.
this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
I am not here arguing that God is superior because he “sent” Jesus. I’m arguing that God is superior because he “taught” Jesus before he sent him. In order to teach somebody something you have to tell them something they don’t already know. Therefore God is superior to his Son in knowledge. This contradicts Trinitarian dogma that divine persons are equal in age, power, and knowledge.
this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
Yes I agree Magnum, there are a few texts that are difficult for non Trinitarians to explain. I would add John 20.28 and a few others. But set that against dozens and dozens of passages that show Jesus is separate and subordinate to God in knowledge, power, and age. Even some verses that I once thought were problematic (Heb 1.10 and Rev 22.13) I am now convinced make much more sense from an ‘Arian’ understanding.
this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
All very interesting, but can you answer the question?
When was Jesus “taught” by the Father according to John 8.28? And doesn’t it imply that the Father knew things the Son didn’t know until he taught him?
this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
Okay, is there anywhere in all that which talks about John 8.28?
I think the passage must be talking about Jesus’ prehuman relationship with God because the same passage emphasises that Jesus came “from heaven” and that he was “sent” by God who taught him.
It seems to me this is a real problem for Trinitarians because if Jesus was taught by his Father in heaven then it means that Jesus didn’t know things until God instructed him and therefore God is superior to his Son in knowledge. This is such a straightforward reading of the text it’s difficult to see how it couldn’t be saying that. Yet it’s problematic for the Trinity that maintains the Father is not superior to the Son in knowledge except for a sense limited to when Jesus became a human.
this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
The context of John 8 indicates rather strongly that Jesus was taught by God in heaven before he came to the earth:
23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
25 “Who are you?” they asked.
“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”
27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” 30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.
this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.
if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.
the verse says:.
This is not a verse that I’ve seen feature heavily in Trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the Trinity. If there are any around I’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the Trinity.
The verse says:
So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.
As far as I know there are no major textual or translation issues, so the verse is straightforward in that sense.
What strikes me is the final phrase: “just as the Father taught me”. JWs believe that Jesus is God’s first creation and that God taught his Son everything over billions of years in his prehuman life. When do Trinitarians think that God taught his Son?
One commentary makes the statement:
but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things; this he says not as lessening himself, or making himself inferior to the Father, but to show the excellency of his doctrine, and to assert the original, authority, and divinity of it; suggesting that it was not an human doctrine, or a device of man's, or his own, as man, but was divine, and from God
But the impression of the verse is that the Father is superior in knowledge and wisdom compared with the Son and that he taught the Son everything. So this commentary seems to raise the problem with the verse for the Trinity without offering a solution.
last night at my bible study group we looked at 1thessalonians ch 5 .
we have been working through the whole letter.
verses 1-11 start with .
1 Cor 7:29?
