Posts by slimboyfat

23

What has changed since January 2009?

by KerryKing in

hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.

i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.

doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.

slimboyfat

Queen Zenobia is no longer king of the south

16

New website -Testimonies on the adverse events of anti Covid-19 vaccination campaigns among Jehovah's Witnesses.

by was a new boy in

'jehovah's witnesses are heavily vaccinated due to guidance given from july to december 20211 by the governing body.many witnesses have had serious adverse effects following vaccination campaigns and, for the most part, have had great difficulty in expressing them and having them recognized.this website was made to allow each witness touched by these vaccination campaigns to express it so that the community takes it into account.'.

https://adverse-events-jw.org.

slimboyfat

Very interesting. I know JWs who were all in favour of vaccines at the start who now say they won’t take any more. There were a few deaths and strokes in the congregation close to taking the vaccines.

56

Today Dr. Peter McCullough said 'conspiracy theory' (which is in the April 2024 Watchtower) is a propaganda term! 😲

by was a new boy in

"misinformation, disinformation, science, this antiscience, uh conspiracy theory, these are propaganda terms.".

'don't use them' he says.

@ 19:33. https://youtu.be/miauulndllq?t=1173.

slimboyfat

I wonder what the person who downvoted me disagrees with, that pharmaceutical companies have sold dangerous drugs to make a profit in the past, or that they could have done the same thing again during the pandemic?

56

Today Dr. Peter McCullough said 'conspiracy theory' (which is in the April 2024 Watchtower) is a propaganda term! 😲

by was a new boy in

"misinformation, disinformation, science, this antiscience, uh conspiracy theory, these are propaganda terms.".

'don't use them' he says.

@ 19:33. https://youtu.be/miauulndllq?t=1173.

slimboyfat

I have a question for the propaganda believers.

Are you aware that pharmaceutical companies have knowingly sold dangerous drugs to the public multiple times that has resulted in the deaths of millions of people? Search Sackler painkillers and Vioxx.

My question is, why do you think that an industry that has a proven history of knowingly selling dangerous drugs to the public would never knowingly sell dangerous drugs to the public during the pandemic? Since it’s a matter of public record that this has happened many times before, why call it a “conspiracy theory” to point out the evidence that it has happened again?

And do you believe the Russians blew up their own gas pipeline too?

2911

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

slimboyfat

Thanks Jehalapeno, makes sense.

I don’t think he cares all that much about subscribers. Not as much as he cares about the money coming in anyway, that’s the figure he’s watching like a hawk! 🦅

Wow Las Malvinas son Argentinas what a truly obnoxious comment to Tibor.

15

1970's Russell Pyramid Photo!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

1970's photo of the russell pyramid.

the picture was sent to us by a former bethelite who was also the person who took the picture.

of course, the pyramid is not there anymore.. .

slimboyfat

Thanks Atlantis once again for the share!

This thread is perhaps not the best place to say this but I can’t find the other photo thread:

I am skeptical of the idea that Watchtower would have vandalised it themselves, or would have organised for the pyramid to be vandalised. They long ago came to terms with the pyramidology in their past. They even put in the Proclaimers book and various WT magazines. More than that, it’s become part of their self-understanding that they have been “refined” and wrong teachings have been discarded over time, including pyramidology. So far from undermining the faith, they’ve spun a narrative where Russell’s pyramid fits well with the idea of progressive truth and increasing light. So I can see little reason for them to want to get rid of the pyramid on Russell’s grave. Why didn’t Watchtower have it restored when it was vandalised? Because they don’t care about it that much. They wouldn’t have got rid of it in the first place, but neither do they want to go out of their way to try to rebuild it.

On the other hand the pyramid became totemic for some former JWs because it epitomises false Watchtower teachings, with hints of association with Freemasons and so on. Ex-JWs who get upset about alleged Masonic links can be among the loudest and most vehement opponents of Watchtower. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a former JW who believes Russell and modern JWs are perhaps under the control of masons in some way who decided to vandalise Russell’s pyramid.

That’s my reaction to the vandalism and removal. Or am overlooking something?

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

slimboyfat

I don’t see evidence or any particular reason for thinking Watchtower have hired “consultants”. What they do have are lots of lawyers and they do listen to their lawyers. It is possible that lawyers have given advice about the impact of shunning practices and it is possible that they’ve taken this on board.

A good source on the historical impact of legal challenges on Watchtower decision making and orientation is the following.

Côté, P., & Richardson, J. T. (2001). Disciplined litigation, vigilant litigation, and deformation: Dramatic organization change in Jehovah's Witnesses. Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, 40(1), 11-25.

This is available free online if you search for it.

Senior sociologist Rodney Stark wrote a widely cited article on factors promoting the growth of religious groups focussing on JWs.

Stark, R., & Iannaccone, L. R. (1997). Why the Jehovah's Witnesses grow so rapidly: A theoretical application. Journal of contemporary Religion, 12(2), 133-157.

Also available free online.

An excellent new book discusses the impact of technological change on the way Jehovah’s Witnesses organise their congregational and preaching activities.

Rota, A. (2023). Collective intentionality and the study of religion: social ontology and empirical research (p. 280). Bloomsbury Academic.

Again, the pdf of this book is available free online if you search for it.

An older article that compared the sectarian character of JWs with the ‘denominationalizing’ trajectory of Seventh-day Adventists is the following.

Lawson, R. (1995). Sect-state relations: Accounting for the differing trajectories of Seventh-day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses. Sociology of Religion, 56(4), 351-377.

This article is interesting because 30 years later it’s worth considering whether JWs are beginning to alter their trajectory.

Another article compared external versus internal factors affecting growth.

Sturgis, P. W. (2008). Institutional versus Contextual Explanations for the Growth of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States, 1945-2002. Review of religious research, 290-300.

This article is not readily available but I can send it by email if you are interested.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

slimboyfat

Probably. They have published snippets of DFing data in the WT in the past, which at least suggests that they did record it at one time.

49

What the Trinitarian perspective on John 8.28?

by slimboyfat in

this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.

if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.

the verse says:.

slimboyfat

I was curious to find out if Trinitarians had an answer for this verse.

The answers forthcoming on the thread have been weak. The suggestion that Jesus was “taught” somehow “outside time” and it doesn’t point to disparity in knowledge, not only adds extra-biblical ideas into the equation, but it still fails to address the issue.

Job and Isaiah describe God as one who cannot be taught anything by anyone else.

Yet John says that Jesus was taught by his Father who sent him to earth.

Clearly, for the early Christians, Jesus was distinguished from and subordinate to God almighty. This verse shows that Jesus is less than God in terms of knowledge.

In order to force Trinitarian dogma into this text you end up making strange claims such as that being taught doesn’t imply you didn’t know beforehand, and OT verses that say God cannot be taught are somehow not at odds with “God the Son” being taught, so long as it’s “outside time”.

49

What the Trinitarian perspective on John 8.28?

by slimboyfat in

this is not a verse that i’ve seen feature heavily in trinitarian debates but it seems to me it presents a problem for the trinity.

if there are any around i’d be interested to know your perspective, or anything you can find on the meaning and how it doesn’t contradict the trinity.

the verse says:.

slimboyfat

Scripture shows that God cannot be taught by anyone:

Job 21.22 Can anyone teach knowledge to God, When He is the one who judges even the highest ones?

Isaiah 40.14 With whom did he consult to gain understanding, Or who teaches him in the path of justice, Or teaches him knowledge, Or shows him the way of true understanding?

Jesus says he was taught by God:

John 8.28 Jesus then said: “After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things.

Therefore Jesus is distinct from and subordinate to God.