Plagiarism is not a matter of opinion and is pretty easy to confirm or refute. What part of “Apocalypse Delayed” is supposed to plagiarise what part of “A People for his Name”? Let’s have a look and see either way. If I recall correctly, “Apocalypse Delayed” does cite and reference “A People for his Name” a number of times, as well as offer a positive review of the book in the annotated bibliography. We’d be looking for significant wording or structural dependence outside direct quotes. It’s perhaps unfair that Penton’s book became much more popular than White’s book, considering how good White’s book was, but that’s not plagiarism. And if your major complaint against Penton is that he remained a Christian, then I have to point out that White’s book also appears to evaluate JWs through the lens lf someone who still has faith in the Bible, perhaps even more so than Penton’s book in fact. Maybe White changed his views in later years, but in the book itself he apparently took it within his remit to evaluate the scriptural arguments of JWs.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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17
Dr. James Penton - goin' up yonder dirt nap
by Nathan Natas ini saw a post on reddit by "big_routine1112" announcing that james penton died.. well, there's always the resurrec... oh, nevermind.. as always, the person expressing the most profound grief and dismay wins!.
"he was my friend" .
"there will never be another of his ilk".
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Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies
by slimboyfat ini don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.
james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.
unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.
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slimboyfat
I don’t know a lot about James Penton but I think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer. So here goes.
James Penton, who died recently, grew up in a JW family in Canada and served as an elder. Unusually for a JW, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor. He wrote a positive book about JWs in Canada that was quoted in the Watchtower and he defended some JW positions, such as on blood, in the media in Canada.
Penton disagreed with the Watchtower leadership on some issues such as whether reporting time in door to door preaching was a requirement for Christians. He formed an association with other brothers over the blood issue before Watchtower set up their own arrangements. He also heard about the rumblings in Brooklyn over Raymond Franz’s exit and visited the headquarters to see what was going on. He was researching a general history of JWs at the same time and didn’t get much cooperation in his research.
I’m not sure exactly how it went down, although it is documented in a book called “Crisis of Allegiance” by James Beverley, but due to differences with Watchtower leadership and some JWs locally, Penton’s son, other family members, and various friends in the congregation and neighbouring congregations left the JWs in Calgary, Alberta, over a hundred in total, all at the same time. It was one of the biggest mass defections from the JW religion on record and Penton was perceived as being at the centre of it.
As a former JW, Penton went on to complete his history of JWs titled “Apocalypse Delayed” which has come to be the most cited academic history of JWs. It covered a lot of aspects of Watchtower history that had been swept under the carpet and was quite scathing in its approach. Some academics have criticised the book on the basis of its tone and apparent bias against JWs but it remains a useful source of information. Its most notable impact is that it has probably impacted how Watchtower, and thus how JWs understand and present their own history.
Penton wrote another book about JWs during the Third Reich intending to expose alleged Watchtower attempts to compromise with the Nazi regime. This book did raise some valid issues that Watchtower wished to forget, but also suffered from being one sided and biased and it was criticised by some academics for that reason.
Penton maintained belief in God and the Bible after his exit from JWs, apparently in association with a small network non-Trinitarian believers, although he rejected various other doctrines of JWs.
In recent years Penton spent some time living in Mexico, maintained friendships with other former JW authors and researchers, and was continuing to research the early history of Watchtower for other projects. I don’t think these were completed or published: work on biographies for Russell or Rutherford? Does anyone know?
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PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!
by Terry inmy only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.
etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.
) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).
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slimboyfat
Oh, oh it looks like I was WRONG!
Trump wins !
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Why do most Ex jW W‘s seem to be liberal?
by JaredScott-1977 ini’m just curious about this dynamic i don’t care personally one way or the other but i do have friends who have chosen to be conservatives and they get totally destroyed on social media pages for their choice.
it’s almost like a lot of ex jw w become as toxic and his judgmental as jehovah’s witnesses themselves what’s up with that?
i also know conservative ex jw’s that can do the same so again i’m not leaning one way or the other i’m just noticing factual observations.
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slimboyfat
Not on here they ain’t, most are boomer magas, and if 1977 refers to you birth year you’re really far too young to be posting here
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121
PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!
by Terry inmy only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.
etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.
) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).
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slimboyfat
That would be the best thing about a Trump presidency, if he actually did it.
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121
PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!
by Terry inmy only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.
etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.
) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).
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slimboyfat
I think there has been a good chance that Trump would win at various points in the campaign, especially around the time that Biden dropped out and around the assassination attempt. This adequately account for the reluctance of power parties not to wish to cross Trump in case he win. It is not a great indicator of the state of the race at the very end of the campaign because these decisions were made some time ago.
On the other hand The Economist endorsed Harris and Harris raised more money than Trump and the candidate who raises and spends the most money usually wins.
But I’m not basing my opinion on that. I’m basically basing my opinion on the polling experts who indicate that Harris will win. In particular Seltzer has Harris on top in Iowa and Nate Silver says the pollsters are herding in the middle because they don’t want to get caught out underestimating Trump for the third time. Which in reality means they are perhaps underestimating Harris this time. Harris is also on top with women voters and women are more reliable voters than men which perhaps gives her a slight advantage that the polls don’t cover.
So I think Harris will win, perhaps by a significant margin.
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121
PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!
by Terry inmy only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.
etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.
) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).
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slimboyfat
Yeah, I’ve read and watched some more … Kamala Harris is definitely going to win, perhaps quite comfortably.
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121
PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!
by Terry inmy only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.
etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.
) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).
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slimboyfat
If Gore had more of a backbone I think he could have explored more options to challenge the obviously flawed result back in 2000. Imagine what a different world we might be living in if that had happened. We never know the paths history could have taken, and maybe I’m wrong that the world would be completely different, but it’s easy to see reasons why the past quarter of a century might have been significantly different if the votes in Florida had been accurately counted in 2000.
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121
PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!
by Terry inmy only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.
etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.
) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).
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slimboyfat
I don’t have a candidate because 1) I’m not American and 2) I would never vote for any candidate or party taking part in a genocidal war. In the UK we had an election a few months ago and I voted for a party that opposes the western backed wars currently ongoing, not for either of the main parties that in my lifetime have both never come across a war they didn’t enthusiastically embrace.
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121
PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!
by Terry inmy only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.
etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.
) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).
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slimboyfat
Which polls?
Nationwide polls listed on the page below are at about 1% Harris ahead on average.
The seven battleground states have Harris very slightly ahead too. Might not like it but that’s the reality at the moment.
The betting odds are shortening on Harris win too.