It means that everything we are and know and experience derives its existence from something else, whereas God does not derive his existence from anything else. You may disagree with the idea, but I don’t see why it should be difficult to understand. Even if you don’t believe in God there is still the problem of accounting for the original cause, or if there is not one, then accounting for the infinite chain of causes. So disbelieving in God doesn’t solve the problem. .
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
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169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
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slimboyfat
I agree that there being something rather than nothing is evidence that God exists but is not evidence for what kind of God he is. God is the source of being, so he does not add to the “things” in existence which require explanation, but is rather in himself the explanation for everything else which is dependent upon him for existence. If you look outside and see lots of trees blown over you might remark that the wind caused the trees to fall over. If someone said that answer was no good because “it doesn’t explain anything, because where did the wind came from?” we would think the objection doesn’t really fit the conversation. One gets the sense that skeptics who ask for an “explanation” for God, as if he is the next on the list after the universe to be explained, are not listening to what believers understand by “God”. Because God is understood by many believers to be the uncaused ground of all being, not an item or thing in the universe to be explained like any other.
Saying that God is the reason for existence may not exhaust everything there is to be said or that pertains to existence, or to God himself. But it doesn’t mean the utterance is without meaning or content in itself either.
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34
I Think Their Is A Move Coming From Higher Ups To Get These Insane Idiot Out Of The Drivers Seat Of Jehovah's Chariot
by Brokeback Watchtower inlook at all the lawsuits, scandals, unsuccessful cover up, contribution shrinkage, stopped building project, and much more.
these guys are steering jehovah's chariot off a cliff if someone don't put the breaks on these delusional clowns.. so what do you think is there something a foot there at chemical dump clean up site warwick?
i bet you a coup is in the offing, because you know not everyone close to the governing body believes their bull shit but are playing along until the time is right to keep the wt ship from sinking like the titanic..
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slimboyfat
The GB themselves have little to no direct control over anything.
How anyone can watch all those internal videos and still conclude that the GB are “not really in charge” is beyond me. The GB micromanage things to an amazing degree, even the accounts department, and planning, things they clearly know nothing about, yet people in the various departments still follow orders from the GB, because they are the spiritual leaders.
As for the OP, I think it is possible that others in the organisation may want to take over control. Who could look at the mess the GB have made and NOT think that it could be done better?
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169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
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slimboyfat
Yes that’s right. For people who see no reason to believe in God in the first place then there is no reason to excuse the contradiction between God and suffering. And for those who do think there are reasons to believe in God it is reasonable for them to think there may be a reason for suffering that God knows but we do not know. Some reasons people have for believing in God in the first place include: 1) the fact that anything exists at all rather than nothing 2) personal experiences or encounters with the divine 3) indications of God acting in and through human history. -
169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
-
-
slimboyfat
Well of course. The point is that what may appear to be a contradiction to one person, may not appear to be a contradiction to another person, if that other person has greater knowledge or insight. It is rational to at least leave open the possibility that God has a better grasp on the nature of reality, goodness and justice than we do.
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169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
-
-
slimboyfat
The New Testament says that God is good and cares about his creatures. It also says that we cannot understand the mind of God, and that when his actions seem unjust we have no right to challenge him. It does not say anywhere, as far as I am aware, that God’s goodness is dependent on whether we understand or can justify how God acts. In fact it explicitly says the opposite (particularly in Romans 9) that God is just even if we are unable to see how that can be the case.
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169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
-
-
slimboyfat
I agree that we think we understand evil and suffering and that this logically excludes an all powerful and loving God. What I am saying is that our understanding cannot always be relied upon. And that there is at least the possibility that the creator of the universe knows better than we do.
Just because we think we understand something doesn’t mean we really understand it. Take the example time. We think we know that time progresses like an endless flow, that what’s been has been and what will be is not yet. And yet scientists have argued that our common understanding of time is a kind of illusion and the reality is quite different.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04558-7
If we can be mistaken in our perception and understanding of something as close to us as our experience of time, then what else do we perceive differently? The Bible says we cannot always understand why God acts as he does, and we have no right to question his justice.
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169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
-
-
slimboyfat
Believers who accept that the problem of evil or suffering is a real problem, and that they don’t know the answer to it, are making a rational judgment that God will understand the reality of the situation and our predicament better than we understand it. The reason for thinking this may be the case is that God must have infinite more insight than we do and there is other evidence for Gos’s love such as his creation, Jesus and his revelation. This is not dismissing suffering as a mystery. It is saying that there does appear to be a real contraction between God’s love and his power to act to stop suffering. But that there are limits to human understanding and that God has infinite wisdom and insight that we cannot ourselves grasp.
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169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
-
-
slimboyfat
The problem is that the Bible writers had the same access to suffering that you do. They were not ignorant of the fact that we live in a world of suffering. And yet they described God as a God of love anyway. They believed that we cannot know God’s mind but we can know the mind of Jesus. They believed that God is good, even if we don’t always understand why he acts as he does.
1 Cor 2:16 For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ.
John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.
1 John 5:20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us insight so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.
Romans 11:33 O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and beyond tracing out his ways are! For “who has come to know Jehovah’s mind, or who has become his adviser?” Or, “who has first given to him, so that it must be repaid to him?” Because from him and by him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen.
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169
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness ini just had a thought of clarity regarding the jw explanation for this doctrine.
they explain that satan challenged god regarding his right to rule.
god failed to prove his right to rule.
-
-
slimboyfat
I agree we are rational beings to an extent. We seem to possess abilities that exceed other animals as far as we know. And we can understand and predict the natural world to a significant degree. But the fact that we are able to do this doesn’t necessarily (or rationally!) mean that we have unlimited powers to understand the world around us or the nature of existence. There may very well be limits to what we can understand. In fact I would put it stronger than that, there are almost certainly limits on the extent we can accurately understand the world and its nature.
As humans we misunderstand and draw false inferences about the world all the time. Some people think they can sing when they can’t, or think they understand why someone did something when they don’t, or perceive a shape to be a shape it isn’t, or are convinced a short line is a long line because of the influence of others, and so on. The scope for misunderstanding and delusion in every day life is enormous. And if we can be mistaken about such mundane things, is it not reasonable to suppose there are things God can understand that we can’t understand? Like the nature of evil and the purpose of existence? It seems like a perfectly reasonable suggestion to me that God will know things that we cannot understand.
The Bible teaches that God is good but it also teaches that we cannot understand his nature and that we have no right to challenge his justice or goodness.