Posts by slimboyfat

40

Revised NWT in French released yesterday

by careful in

https://www.jw.org/en/whats-new/revised-nwt-released-french/ .

it looks like it may only be available electronically, that is, no printed version(?)..

is the german next?.

slimboyfat

If this release is dignital only (can't tell from the note) that would be a huge development. I guess it would mean we can expect English Bibles to stop being distributed when the current inventory runs out. How on earth would they explain that? But if the money has run out they may have no choice at all. That said, let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Maybe there are print copies in French. Surely there is a French forum where we could find out?

I know a German convention is taking place in two weeks so we will find out about any German release then.

23

NWT support of John 1:1. Punching holes in it

by LevelThePlayingField in

this is what they have in the new world translation index 6a to support their version of john 1:1. they are not honest even to their own people.

they list the year of the bible, rendering, and source.

but there's only two sources that actually lend any type of support to their argument.

slimboyfat

It’s also worth mentioning that although Greek doesn’t have an indefinite article, when the New Testament was translated into Sahidic, as early as the second century, the translators used the indefinite article to convey the meaning here. The early church father Origen also perceived a strong distinction between “God” with and “a god” without the article in this verse, referring to the Word as a “second god”. Catholic scholar John L McKenzie famously said that the verse, “should rigorously be translated ‘the Word was a divine being.’” There is a lot of support for a non-traditional rendering of John 1:1 along the lines of the NWT.

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

slimboyfat

I didn’t say anything about a universal law. What misconception?

Social proof and authority are much more important in changing opinion and behaviour than facts and logic, yet we invariably explain our actions with reference to facts and logic. That’s what I understand from what I have read on the subject.

I thought you were coming round to that view when I read the OP.

But I gather you are saying that facts and logic don’t change most people’s mind, but that you personally base your own opinions on facts and logic. Is that right?

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

slimboyfat

Okay I can see why you would think that from what I have said, so let me be clear.

I think there is good reason to believe that some sort of God exists. When I say that what I mean is I believe that an intelligence behind the existence of the universe seems at least as good, and probably a better explanation for the universe than no God at all.

So that’s the base level, you could say agnostic leaning toward believing in God.

But on top of that I don’t rule out the God of the Bible being a fair representation of the God of the universe. How come? Because it’s quite a complex and thoughtful portrayal of the almighty. New atheists take all the problematic anti humanist texts of the Bible and say God can’t be like that or is wicked. But isn’t it possible that God, if he exists, doesn’t conform to modern humanist standards? What if God has less regard for humans than we would like, is in many ways incomprehensible, views his worship as paramount and so on. You might not like God to be so. But there is nothing to say God must be as we would like him to be.

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

slimboyfat

So you agree with the article you posted or not? What was the point of the thread again?

We’d all like to think we are rational people and make decisions on the basis of facts, evidence and logic. But the best science on decision making says otherwise. We make decisions on the basis of 1) what other people are doing and 2) what authority figures say. And when we look back at the decisions we have made we make sense of them in terms of facts, evidence and logic.

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

slimboyfat

No, this is the point. You’d think it’s the information that is making people leave but it’s not. It’s the fact that people see other people reading information and leaving that has the effect of making people leave. It’s the herd mentality.

If a critical mass of JWs become convinced that people are leaving in droves and the Watchtower game is up, then the dam will burst. I think we are near that, or possibly even in the middle of it right now.

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

slimboyfat

Sometimes in these discussions it seems as if we assume that unless there is an objective or absolute basis for morality, then it is empty or there is no point.

It is as if morality is either an exact form of knowledge like mathematics, or else it’s just a matter of opinion like your favourite colour. I tend to think it’s something in between those extremes. We can give good reasons and arguments in favour of moral positions, but we can’t prove absolutes. I can live with that.

And Cofty I already know you don’t believe God exists. You think I would still be unsure where you stand on this?

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

slimboyfat

There can be lots of bases for moral stances. We can rely on tradition, instinct, aesthetics, authority, religion, ethical systems such as utilitarianism and so on. So there are lots of different ways of constructing your system of ethics.

But is there an objective or absolute answer to ethical questions? Without God personally I don’t see how there can be. God gets to decide what is right and wrong. If not God, then what?

4

looking for old lapel badges

by blownaway in

other than ebay anyone have any idea of where to look?.

slimboyfat

Is one with a Unitarian insert any use?

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

slimboyfat

While it is true that facts and logic don’t change people's mind, that’s not to say that nothing will change people’s mind.

Social proof and arguments from authority often persuade people to reevaluate their position.

So the most effective things to say to JWs may include: JW growth has slowed down dramatically in recent years and many are leaving the organisation after finding information online. Or, the royal commission in Australia found that JWs are very poor at protecting children. In fact they found over a thousand cases of abuse and not a single one was reported to the police.