In pre-Christian times Jews talked about various concepts or entities in close relation to God such as Wisdom, Logos, Glory, Angel of the Lord, Archangel and so on. But here is the reason why the development supports JW theology and is utterly fatal to Trinitarian orthodoxy: in every case where the concept was viewed as an emanation of God himself it lacked personhood, and in every case where the concept was viewed as an actual person it was always viewed as a creation of God and subordinate to him in power, eternity and knowledge. Both of those scenarios are incompatible with Trinitarianism because an entity that lacks personhood or that lacks equality with God contradicts the Trinity. The idea of Wisdom/Logos/Angel of the Lord as the first created being, second in power only to God himself, was a strand of thought that was developed in early Judaism and was compatible with the early Christian view of Jesus up to the fourth century and is compatible with JW teaching about Jesus as the firstborn of all creation.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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225
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
I don’t have ability to leave either thumbs up or thumbs down on any posts ever since 2016 when I downvoted a post that boasted Richard Dawkins’ survival of a stroke meant he could continue to promote his wonderful atheist message. 🤷♂️
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3 Changes The Watchtower Made on Babylon The Great in the Last 6 Months
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/vpws6ncqpla?si=dqnf7-hupfr4pdta.
for decades, jehovah’s witnesses have been banging on about babylon the great—the so-called world empire of false religion—being on the brink of collapse.
any day now, they assured us, churches would empty out, priests would be left twiddling their thumbs, and humanity would collectively bin organised religion.
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slimboyfat
I think they say it was shortly.after 1914 or in 1918 not sure. 🤔
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3 Changes The Watchtower Made on Babylon The Great in the Last 6 Months
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/vpws6ncqpla?si=dqnf7-hupfr4pdta.
for decades, jehovah’s witnesses have been banging on about babylon the great—the so-called world empire of false religion—being on the brink of collapse.
any day now, they assured us, churches would empty out, priests would be left twiddling their thumbs, and humanity would collectively bin organised religion.
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slimboyfat
So, maybe Babylon the Great *isn’t* the one falling after all. Maybe it’s the Watchtower.
I don't think so. In Scotland churches like the methodists, episcopalians, unitarians, and free church are nearing extinction whereas JWs are as numerous as they've ever been. On a global scale.the Mormon church is struggling whereas JWs are still growing. JWs grow faster than the population so if they keep that current trend they'd obviously keep gaining ground year on year. Which I doubt they will, incidentally. They are.boumd to start declining at some point but I don't see the point in pretending they are somehow in trouble now when that's not true.
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The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
This passage has been misinterpreted to argue that … [it means what it says]
I’m detecting a pattern here.
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225
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
And even if there be not as yet any one who is worthy to be called a son of God, nevertheless let him labour earnestly to be adorned according to his first-born word, the eldest of his angels, as the great archangel of many names; for he is called, the authority, and the name of God, and the Word, and man according to God's image, and he who sees Israel. Philo of Alexandria, On The Confusion of Tongues, 146.
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225
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
It’s not whether I consider them Arian. It’s the fact that they don’t hold to Arian theology and don’t consider themselves Arian. Unitarian Universalists are not Arian at all, not even close. Neither are Christadelphians, Biblical Unitarians, or others aqwsed listed.
Perhaps the closest you mentioned is the Mormons. I don’t know if they describe themselves as Arian though. Obviously JWs also reject the label Arian but they do agree with Arius on some crucial features including Jesus’ being God’s first creation. This will apply to some of the tiny Russellite groups too I imagine.
But what I was interested in is the non JW authors aqwsed alluded to who argue for an Arian position. The only one I know is Danny Andre Dixon. I’d be interested to find out about others.
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225
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
The only no JW Arian writer I've come across (apart from former JWs such as Greg Stafford and Rolf Furuli) is Danny Andre Dixon. I'd be interested to know if there are others.
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225
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
Ah, okay, they are not Arians, because they don't believe Jesus lived in heaven before coming to earth.
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225
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
Many modern Arians, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, claim that early Christian thinkers like Justin Martyr denied the full divinity of Christ …
Do you know of many modern Arians apart from JWs? Can you point me to non-JW Arians who make this “claim”? There probably are, I just don’t know where they are of what they’ve written. I’d be interested to know.