James Brown: "There is no Grand Scheme." Exactly my point. And that is precisely why I disagree that when when you get off this ride you get onto another. No. When you get off the ride, the ride ends -- period -- end of sentence. There's no "hanging out" anywhere.
Posts by Etude
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63Why reincarnation doesn,t make sense.
by jam inthis accomplish?
the situation which surround the soul.
change with each life, therefore how does this allow.
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63
Why reincarnation doesn,t make sense.
by jam inthis accomplish?
the situation which surround the soul.
change with each life, therefore how does this allow.
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Etude
Since some of us are now offering alternatives to reincarnation (being all part of 'god' for one), I'd like to opt for one of Paul Davies' (a well-know physicist) suggestions and select that what we are all part of a virtual reality simulation that we sometimes get to play over again. Otherwise I would have to allow for the possibility that some of us have reincarnated as rocks, by virtue of being as dumb as one. If I can't figure out how the uselessness of some individuals fit in the grand scheme of things, perhaps I need to consider that there isn't a grand scheme of things.
Etude.
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63
Why reincarnation doesn,t make sense.
by jam inthis accomplish?
the situation which surround the soul.
change with each life, therefore how does this allow.
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Etude
Hmmm...Strong feelings here about the subject. I guess reincarnationists must not believe in God, at least the God of the Bible because believing in God that would mean exactly the opposite: that "souls" originate (like Adam and Eve) and never come back. So, everyone after Adam and Eve came back from another life where? Nowhere, they were just new "souls", therefore "reincarnation" is inconsistent with "belief in the Bible". Otherwise, we could arbitrarily say that maybe Adam and Eve's most recent apparitions are Mitt Romney and Michelle Bachmann, one clueless dude and a crazy-ass bitch, over and over again. If reincarnation ocurred, it would seem that souls just keep coming back engendering new souls which also come back. That'a a lot of competition and terrorists get to blow themselves up over and over again until they get it right.
Etude.
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63
Why reincarnation doesn,t make sense.
by jam inthis accomplish?
the situation which surround the soul.
change with each life, therefore how does this allow.
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Etude
Re-incarnation was invented for the same reason resurrection was invented. It is a way to provide meaning to the apparent futility of living lives that are going to end permanently. I suppose it's difficult for many people to be aware in and of life in such a great way only to face the prospect that it will all end in one gigantic grammatical period-end of sentence.
At least with resurrection you get to comeback as yourself. But, since there aren't too many people around that have returned to tell about it, resurrection has always been deferred to some remote future, filling up people with hope.
For a more immediate reward, reincarnation can explain those nagging moments of déjà-vu and more or less confirm that we existed before, thereby reinforcing the idea. But the scheme needs to be more elaborate in order to explain the reason why we need to come back in the first place as signifying more than just our whim to want to go on in a meaningful way. So we need to invent a purpose for reincarnation: to "refine" the soul (thereby inventing the soul); to learn the correct "life lessons"; to correct and atone for the wrongs we made; etc -- all the things we wish would have done in the first place.
I don't know how true this is, but many cultures that believe in reincarnation also think that one can come back as a fly or a cow. This is one of those "lessons" that reincarnation supposedly teaches us. It's like a cosmic Santa Claus saying that if you were bad, you get to come back as a cockroach. The forces that control that selection must have a hell of sense of humor.
Since very little consciousness seems to come back at reincarnation, what part of us does the learning and gets a do-over? That's rather nebulous for most of us. It may be some core emotional center or some fundamental ethical repository that makes us who we are. Well, devoid of personality, I don't see how that makes us individuals. It would then seem that if anything comes back, it's up for grabs by the first fetus that encounters it.
OK, let's say that some personality sneaks through in reincarnation. But that would also include memories. Well, there's your déjà-vu, the kind Shirley McLain has had so many of. Damn, I must be dead now 'cause I've never had any of those. I wonder if any members of a primitive tribe in the heart of the Amazon jungle have ever felt that they once were a Marquis at the court of Luis Philippe I back in 1835 France.
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69
I left the Witnesses over 10 years ago, but finally went back
by JakeMarley inthe entire time i was gone it was nagging at me.
i hadn't been previously baptized, so leaving wasn't that big a deal.
now i'm back in the swing of it, going to all meetings and field service.
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Etude
redvip2000, I understand what you mean. However, people in the situation you describe are ripe for mind control. If they can't find their own way in the world, then they are doomed to have someone else show it to them. Unless that other someone is a relative or a benevolent soul, they will get screwed and taken advantage of. I vacillated for a while and thought that I would someday return to the organization. But the more time went by (not 10 years), I realized that life was not like I was being told. It's not that I couldn't see what was going around me, it's that the JW influence twisted my perception to see only what they wanted me to see until I could no longer ignore that inner voice that told me otherwise. I'm afraid Jake is doomed.
Etude.
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69
I left the Witnesses over 10 years ago, but finally went back
by JakeMarley inthe entire time i was gone it was nagging at me.
i hadn't been previously baptized, so leaving wasn't that big a deal.
now i'm back in the swing of it, going to all meetings and field service.
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Etude
Yep. I had a suspicion right from the start that Jake was really never here. That's why I said to him "if you're genuine and sincere...". It was a troll. At this point, whoever it was, has that bit of ammunition s/he was looking for without realizing the freedom of choices we mentioned: to find for him/herself what the issues are. I should have known that someone in "Jake's" position must have been encased in carbonite for 10 years to have missed what's happened in the world and the WTS so badly.
Etude.
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69
I left the Witnesses over 10 years ago, but finally went back
by JakeMarley inthe entire time i was gone it was nagging at me.
i hadn't been previously baptized, so leaving wasn't that big a deal.
now i'm back in the swing of it, going to all meetings and field service.
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Etude
Jake:
If you're really genuine and sincere, I would like to put you across my lap and with a big paddle smack those ideas out of your behind. At the same time, I would protect your feelings about wanting to return and that apparently you're in need of something else, the thing they (the Witnesses) are so good at providing, that sense of protection, camaraderie and a sense of belonging. Well, let me give you some advice: You can find all of that elsewhere without paying their heavy price and without living their lies. Maybe the world seems "messed up" to you now, but it's all relative. When the JWs get a hold of you and you start having doubts or don't agree with something (it's bound to happen), you'll really feel messed up then. Read, read, read! And if you're still steadfast on joining them, I hope that you remember what happened on this forum when you find yourself devastated emotionally and spiritually. Maybe it will help.
Etude.
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JW Growth
by Etude inhas anyone done the math and arrived at the actual numbers reflecting the growth of the jws spanning one or two decades?
back in the 70's, i remember reading in the "year book" how growth was exploding all over the place.
indeed, that's what led to the major influx of people into bethel in those years.
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Etude
Has anyone done the math and arrived at the actual numbers reflecting the growth of the JWs spanning one or two decades? Back in the 70's, I remember reading in the "Year Book" how growth was exploding all over the place. Indeed, that's what led to the major influx of people into Bethel in those years. Then it dipped a bit when Armagedon didn't happen in '75.
However, with a considerable (perhaps greater) outflow of disassociated and disfellopwhiped people, what is the real growth of the organziation, if not in numbers then percentage-wise? Certainly, it can't be greater than the Mormons or even some of the evangelical mega-churches. Where can I get my hands on some numbers?
Thanks.
Etuce.
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Etude
God'll git ya if you celebrate! If you're going to behead anybody, I can provide you with a few names. Let me know. In the mean time, HAVE A BLAST!
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can spirituality replace religion?
by make yourself ini was watching cnn, an d they asked this question and this one lady called in and claimed she wasn't raised in a religious household.
but she remembered when she was in elementary school that this jw girl asked her if she was spritual she said no, then the jw told her she would go to hell.
wow.
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Etude
Hey misocup:
I hope I'm not too late and you won't look at this post. Just in case, I'll try to send it via email. Somehow, I wrote it but forgot to put it up on the board.
I venture to guess that you’ve read “The God Delusion”. If so, you’re certainly an inquiring mind and I’d like to ask you some questions. I mentioned before that I think spirituality and religion are not intrinsically tied (religion may deal with the belief in God but belief in God does not always deal with religion). I think the same thing applies to religion and spirituality. From the exchange on this thread, it’s obvious that there’s some confusion as to what spirituality is. No matter what we call it and no matter what we try to do to quash it, it seems that we cannot eradicate this quality from humans.
In light of the effort from people like Dawkins to explain in some sort of scientific terms the need for something which on its face (the God idea) belies Evolution, what do you think of his attempt? The answer may further the cause of this thread, but I sense that it’s dying down. If you want to play, I encourage you to formulate a question along these lines and start a new thread in the proper area. Let me know and I’ll join in. I’m curious about opinions other people who also read the book may have. Thanks make yourself for being curious and posting the question. Misocup, thanks for the video humor. I’m eating them up. I see where you got your profile picture. It’s more humorous now but still disturbing.
Etude.