i'm currently cleaning up our bookcase and need to decide what goes into the trash.
i'll keep the watchtower books that are not available online anymore (e.g.
the brown "reasoning" book).
In another couple of decade or so, but particularly when a newer generation of recruits takes over, every publication up to now will be a historical curiosity. That will mean more ammunition for others to show what revisionist whores the Watchtower is.
Etude.
http://watchtowerdocuments.org/did-you-know-having-children/#comment-474.
here's the short article found in the "did you know?
" series found on watchtower documents, and, underneath it, is the unusual comment:.
The GB have created a micro management culture that has and will continue to back fire on them as time goes on.
I know what you mean. But really, it's not the GB doing this. The whole premise of the JW construct is conducive to this sort of scrutiny and nitpicking. I observed this behavior from the very first day I got into Bethel and was told what I could and could not do. While some of that was reasonable (nailing pictures on the walls, bringing in a trashy chair to your room) a lot of it was procedural, "super-fine" and just petty. For example, while working at the night shift in the "sewing department" (sewing bible signatures) in Brooklyn (1974; before the GB), I had the floor overseer tell me that I couldn't read the Bible during my breaks. When I asked why, he replied that it's because the Society had deemed to give me an opportunity to "rest" and that I should "enjoy it" and show appreciation for that. Yeah, the guy was "super-fine" and didn't think that his argument made no sense even if my intent was to "relax". I think the wanker was suffering from sleep deprivation.
Etude.
one thing that surprised me shortly after joining this site was the number of individuals who, after experiencing the deception of being a jw and the hypocrisy of the “truth”, switched to being catholic or “born-again” evangelists.
it seemed to me like jumping from the hot pan into the fire.. i don’t want to piss anyone off for his or her choices.
i feel everyone is free to believe what they may.
Precisely, pale.emperor. I would expect that someone who has "reasoned" his or her way out of the BORG would reason a way into something else or into nothing else. Reasoning a way into something else would make one realize it foibles. An examination of other religions made me run the other way. I wonder what rationalization people who become involved into another religious quagmire actually use?
However Etude, you speak of the ultimate conversion. My response is to suggest that it happens when we grow up (at any age) and start to use reason and testable evidence as the basis on which we make our important decisions.
It's unfortunate that for some people it takes an entire lifetime to "grow up" and come to a reasonable realization. Then, it's too late.
Half banana: I had no idea about that contingent here trying to recruit others back into religion. They are either really desperate for consensus and acceptance or are delusional but sincere. I don't see any reasoning in that process.
Doubtfully Yours: Your analogy of "throwing the baby with the bath water" won't work as a displaced irrational action if the baby (in this case religion) is dead. Why keep a dead idea around? Why assume that one crazy-ass idea can successfully replace another crazy-ass idea? If one needs to find something to believe in, it only makes sense to replace it with something more reasonable, even if "reasonable" means agreeing to conclude that there is nothing to find. Then we can begin to rely on ourselves.
Etude
says it all really.
total hypocrisy once again..
And yes, he was a homophobe. He's the reason Brooklyn Bethel would not press your blue jeans at the dry cleaners back in '74. Knorr felt that such a thing would make bethelites look like the homosexuals in the Heights neighborhood.
Etude.
says it all really.
total hypocrisy once again..
Knorr's personal "right-hand man" was Freddy Franz. Knorr was practically smitten with Franz's role as a modern "prophet". Knorr was in complete agreement when Franz gave a talk about 1975 being a fitting conclusion of the 1,000-year reign of Christ and the beginning of Armageddon.
Etude.
i think the disfellowshipping abandonement arrangement in human relationships also to be a heavy contributor to this malady:.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/borderline_personality_disorder.
borderline personality disorder (bpd), also known as emotionally unstable personality disorder, is a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by unstable relationships with other people, unstable sense of self, and unstable emotions.
I saw the first video you posted. My conclusion is that while interesting and tantalizing, Jung's conclusions are certainly not scientific but not necessarily invalid. I think that because it occurred to me that there are a lot of other disciplines that arrive at the same "actualization" and a joining of the unconscious with the conscious, they do not involve the intricacies of Jung. Buddhist and Hindu Sharmas have for a long time indicated a way to achieve an ultimate cognitive state that leads to deep satisfaction; when the self is actualized and is present with the "inner self". More recently, people like Eckhart Tolle and others, without the complexity of Jung, have alluded to that same type of mental realization.
To me, whatever the effects of being in the Watchtower Organization involve, each of us has a different way and perhaps a different explanation for why we joined in the first place and how we heal in the aftermath of the deception. It could be for understanding and following the reasons Jung suggests or simply by meditating and achieving a higher state of being. I've done neither, but when I exercise a choice, I would choose the later.
Etude.
says it all really.
total hypocrisy once again..
I personally felt his influence by his opinions of how a Bethelite should dress. It triggered a war with me. Brokeback Watchtower, it started bitter debate between me and the "house servant" at the Wallkill Farms. I recall Knorr berating a "sister" because she didn't show up to read the morning "text". She had had a severe case of morning sickness (she was pregnant) and simply didn't think that was a sufficient excuse to not show up. He was an asshole.
Etude.
http://watchtowerdocuments.org/did-you-know-having-children/#comment-474.
here's the short article found in the "did you know?
" series found on watchtower documents, and, underneath it, is the unusual comment:.
I can imagine that advocating not to have children didn't mean exactly one should not have sex, especially after the 60's and "the Pill" to which JWs never overtly objected as a form of contraception. Nevertheless, it does not keep them from being meddling bastards. The reason you suggest for their pitch is a good one. They have, for a long time, like some prostitutes, relied on the kindness of strangers.
Etude.
one thing that surprised me shortly after joining this site was the number of individuals who, after experiencing the deception of being a jw and the hypocrisy of the “truth”, switched to being catholic or “born-again” evangelists.
it seemed to me like jumping from the hot pan into the fire.. i don’t want to piss anyone off for his or her choices.
i feel everyone is free to believe what they may.
Scratchme1010
I absolutely agree. There are all kinds of reasons why people join other religions. And I think some have a legitimate need to satisfy their sense of belonging or to satisfy their need for spirituality. That doesn't mean they are not deluding themselves. In fact, I venture to say that my need for answers and for some sort of fulfillment or satiation of deep needs is what led me to become a JW. I was tired of the same rhetoric from other religions. What they offered sounded pretty good at the time. That proves to me that I can be sincere and very wrong.
So, to address your statement, in the logical sense, reasons can be VALID and be entirely wrong. That would be because the premises upon they are built are incorrect. I would rather avoid the mistakes that led me to something false and a waste of time. That's all the JWs ended up being and that's what most of religion is, including some "new-age" thinking.
Etude.
one thing that surprised me shortly after joining this site was the number of individuals who, after experiencing the deception of being a jw and the hypocrisy of the “truth”, switched to being catholic or “born-again” evangelists.
it seemed to me like jumping from the hot pan into the fire.. i don’t want to piss anyone off for his or her choices.
i feel everyone is free to believe what they may.
waton:
I tend to agree. Life progresses and evolves. I just don't think (like some people do) that God created life and then let Evolution take over. It's a nice idea but has absolutely no basis.
Etude.
