Posts by Etude

17

Leaving it all behind.

by Jazzbo in

i haven't been on an exjw site for months and months.

i frankly am way past the point where i define myself as an exjw, i am who i am and it doesn't have really anything to do with the way i was raised or spent a considerable portion of my life, i also refuse to be bound by witness requirements as to leaving, contact with witnesses, or some kind of responsibility to whack people who seem perfectly happy as witnesses over the head with 'the truth about the truth'.

i have recently run in to a few people that seems to simply obsess with their lives as witnesses and why they left and in some cases the way they were treated or mistreated, or the need to "do" something.

Etude

I am who I am and it doesn't have really anything to do with the way I was raised or spent a considerable portion of my life...

Jazzbo: Just consider that whether you zigged instead of zagged in your life, you really are the result of your experiences. Everything that happened to you has influenced you in one way or another. Even if you were taught one thing and ended doing the opposite, that was a choice you made because of whatever it was that presented itsel at that time. You are who you are because of what happened to you, not in spite of what happened to you. You are not as autonomous as you think.

What you might be is more unattached and dispassionate about your past because you don't have the degree of investment others have in family they left behind. You may easily not give a shit about a relative who's left behind in the organization. But, other people do and feel helped by coming here and learning anything they can to help those they love or simply to receive comfort from others who understand.

If you're not interested hearing about the painful experiences people have had as they search to heal, then why keep coming back? Take your leave. It seems there's very little you can do to comfort others or to contribute in a doctrinal or logical discussion. I think you'll be very happy.  

Etude.

41

May 15, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS Re: Regular Pioneers

by wifibandit in

may 15, 2017 to all bodies of elders re: regular pioneers.

uk version.

Etude

Almost all JDubs cook up the hours anyway

I never thought about that, Hairtrigger. At least, I never thought of that in terms of everyone else. While I was doing it, I was justifying it all the way. I squeezed any seconds I had even mentioned anything about the religion to use on my report. I'd use a phone conversation in which I had spoken to someone about how I was doing (in the religion) as "preaching" time. I reported the hours off the top of my head. So, I usually would round up. As time went on, I began to think that the whole system of reporting hours was ridiculous. They didn't do that back in the first century, why now? After a while, I was only reporting the minimum, approximately 2 hours per week. That was easy to fake.

Etude.

41

May 15, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS Re: Regular Pioneers

by wifibandit in

may 15, 2017 to all bodies of elders re: regular pioneers.

uk version.

Etude

My mom, who was a steady Witness but not a fanatic, told me how in her congo there was a sister who was lauded for being a regular pioneer. She was single and seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time in field work. People treated her like a saint, which explains the reward some people derive without an physical remuneration. Anyway, she told me how one day, while in the middle of pioneering out in the streets, the "sister" fell and spontaneously aborted. Apparently, pioneering was not the only thing she was doing in the streets. The embarrassment to the congo was short lived. They of course threw the pioneer under the bus. But for my mom, it was a bit of vindication of the hypocrisy that goes on there and the misplaced adulation they give some people because of what they perceive.

Etude.

29

The Ultimate Conversion

by Etude in

one thing that surprised me shortly after joining this site was the number of individuals who, after experiencing the deception of being a jw and the hypocrisy of the “truth”, switched to being catholic or “born-again” evangelists.

it seemed to me like jumping from the hot pan into the fire.. i don’t want to piss anyone off for his or her choices.

i feel everyone is free to believe what they may.

Etude

Zoos: I understand where it is you find yourself. I too held on to the idea that no matter how stupid religion is, God must still exist. Realizing He appears not to give a shit about His creation is the first step to the final realization that there is no one to give a shit.

It was somewhat scary for me to go there. However, I kept looking and considering every possible point of view (a never ending quest) and finally had to admit that order in the universe does not require an intelligence. What is required for its existence? I'm happy to say "I don't know", although I've arrived at some clues. But the most important thing is to never stop looking.

17

Never give up!

by stuckinarut2 in

i just wanted to share a quick thread to remind us all to never give up hope that our loved ones who are still mentally trapped in the org may one day wake up.. when i first starting waking up i never thought my wife would also awake.

i have always loved and respected her ability to think and reason, but i assumed that the hold of the organisation would always have its grip on her.. but slowly, and with patience, i shared some things i had learned, and the results have been amazing!.

my dear wife, who posts here under the name "unstuck" is so fully awake along with me.

Etude

Thanks for your good and kind words, stuckinarut2. I always hoped that as time goes by there'd be a greater chance that my family would discover their errors. However, I find it hard to be hopeful. I think people settle and would rather overlook problems in their belief system for fear of being being left with "nothing" (in their perception). I would rather be pleasantly surprised if I hear from one of them or even from old friends that they have abandoned the cult. For now, they are totally lost to me.

Etude.

17

I'll pray for you

by I quit! in

jw
friends

one thing over the years social media has made me painfully aware of is how many times i see someone use the phrase "i'll pray for you" and the outcome is bad.

recently a friend of mine who at one time was my manager where i worked got cancer.

a lot of people were praying for him.

Etude

It always pissed me off when some JW would say, like it happened to my mom: "Sister. I had a huge headache and I prayed to Jehovah and in an hour it was gone!" What bullshit, I thought to myself. I thought: Is Jehovah that meticulous and manipulating to be paying attention to a stupid headache? Can't these people figure out that the headache would have gone away eventually? I neglected to ask if they had taken an aspirin.

There have been numerous "prayer studies" most of which, in my estimation, show no correlation between the beseeching and desired results, especially those studies where the prayer is from a group of people on behalf of another individual. My best guess why people like to pray for others is due to the clustering illusion. It's a logical fallacy.

In spite of that, I think there's another mechanism when prayer is conducted meditatively for yourself. That is related to the "placebo" effect and has been demonstrated in clinical tests. Doctors have know for years that there is a certain positive mental effect which can make someone heal or go into remission from cancer but defeats someone else who just gives up. Whether that is manifested via prayer, strong belief, meditation, belief in lifestyle changes, etc, is not of much consequence as long as it has the desired mind/body effect.

I just refuse to reply to people or agree with them on FB when they request for prayers. I don't think Jehovah is computer savvy.

22

How do the GB micro-manage people's lives today?

by UnshackleTheChains in

how do the gb micro-manage people's lives today?one example is their micro management in dress and grooming.

eg their view of beards.

elders in most congs will take a brother to a corner and remind him why jws don't grow beards.

Etude

Additionally, I remember the "no blue jeans" rule in Brooklyn and the idea that I had to shave my mustache under pressure from the factory servant.

Etude.

37

Which Watchtower publications did you keep?

by Schnufti in

i'm currently cleaning up our bookcase and need to decide what goes into the trash.

i'll keep the watchtower books that are not available online anymore (e.g.

the brown "reasoning" book).

Etude

In another couple of decade or so, but particularly when a newer generation of recruits takes over, every publication up to now will be a historical curiosity. That will mean more ammunition for others to show what revisionist whores the Watchtower is.

Etude.

41

Want to read a surprising comment/complaint posted on my website about JW's encouraged not to have kids. Who would have thought!

by AndersonsInfo in

http://watchtowerdocuments.org/did-you-know-having-children/#comment-474.

here's the short article found in the "did you know?

" series found on watchtower documents, and, underneath it, is the unusual comment:.

Etude

UnshackleTheChains

The GB have created a micro management culture that has and will continue to back fire on them as time goes on.

I know what you mean. But really, it's not the GB doing this. The whole premise of the JW construct is conducive to this sort of scrutiny and nitpicking. I observed this behavior from the very first day I got into Bethel and was told what I could and could not do. While some of that was reasonable (nailing pictures on the walls, bringing in a trashy chair to your room) a lot of it was procedural, "super-fine" and just petty. For example, while working at the night shift in the "sewing department" (sewing bible signatures) in Brooklyn (1974; before the GB), I had the floor overseer tell me that I couldn't read the Bible during my breaks. When I asked why, he replied that it's because the Society had deemed to give me an opportunity to "rest" and that I should "enjoy it" and show appreciation for that. Yeah, the guy was "super-fine" and didn't think that his argument made no sense even if my intent was to "relax". I think the wanker was suffering from sleep deprivation.

Etude.

29

The Ultimate Conversion

by Etude in

one thing that surprised me shortly after joining this site was the number of individuals who, after experiencing the deception of being a jw and the hypocrisy of the “truth”, switched to being catholic or “born-again” evangelists.

it seemed to me like jumping from the hot pan into the fire.. i don’t want to piss anyone off for his or her choices.

i feel everyone is free to believe what they may.

Etude

Precisely, pale.emperor. I would expect that someone who has "reasoned" his or her way out of the BORG would reason a way into something else or into nothing else. Reasoning a way into something else would make one realize it foibles. An examination of other religions made me run the other way. I wonder what rationalization people who become involved into another religious quagmire actually use?

Half banana

However Etude, you speak of the ultimate conversion. My response is to suggest that it happens when we grow up (at any age) and start to use reason and testable evidence as the basis on which we make our important decisions.

It's unfortunate that for some people it takes an entire lifetime to "grow up" and come to a reasonable realization. Then, it's too late.

Half banana: I had no idea about that contingent here trying to recruit others back into religion. They are either really desperate for consensus and acceptance or are delusional but sincere. I don't see any reasoning in that process.

Doubtfully Yours: Your analogy of "throwing the baby with the bath water" won't work as a displaced irrational action if the baby (in this case religion) is dead. Why keep a dead idea around? Why assume that one crazy-ass idea can successfully replace another crazy-ass idea? If one needs to find something to believe in, it only makes sense to replace it with something more reasonable, even if "reasonable" means agreeing to conclude that there is nothing to find. Then we can begin to rely on ourselves.

Etude