the society will not and can not allow current levels of defection without sanction.
shunning is their hallmark and what allows members to live in their hypnotic dream-like state, away from the evil informative apostates.. soon they will have to either change their baptism questions again, with the phrasing something like &"only by doing all the things jw in good standing do can we be considered as jw" blah blah blah.
they will then use that as a springboard to da or df members who don't attend meetings.. either that, or they will adopt another one of their stunning resolutions [8>]like they've resolved in the past.
Lisa,
I was one of Pavlov's dogs back there in 1963 at Twickenham,London and i clapped as hard as all the rest - without having a clue what it all meant. It just felt good to part of a large crowd ,united in a common cause, clapping and shouting "Aye!"
After all we were special people, we had all the anwers and God was using - so we thought
It had in fact more to do with the psychology of a crowd.Poor dumb saps that we were!
i had this thought while reading the co visit thread, and decided to make it a separate topic.. how much longer can they keep beating the slaves before there is a rebellion?
it is obvious that the trickle of people that are leaving is growing, and growing enough to make them worried.
at some point it may become a flood.
Unlike many members of the board , I still attend some meetings, even if only to lend support to family, and i am on good terms with the locals
I do not see an organisation about to collapse
Granted the rate of increase has all but stalled, but there are plenty of diehards to keep it going a long time. They are quite gullible enough to swallow whatever "New light" is presented to explain the extended Last Days.
Do not believe that all of the youth lead double lives , many that I know are fully committed
In short, I am sure that the Org will fade away eventually,but it is going to be here for us to complain about for a long time yet.
i thought someone would post about the movie last sunday, (part 2 tonight, tuesday) "living with the dead", starring ted danson.
it is the story of james van pragh, the psychic who sees dead people.
it reminded me a little of "the sixth sense", especially when he was a little boy.. did anyone else see it?
I have read the thread with interest. The charecters are not known,at least to me, in the U K .
I would only add a further note of caution. A Public Speaker at a K H once used a quote from a Greek, Demosthenes ,something like
"It is incredibly easy to get people to believe in something that they always wanted to believe in " I have never been able to verify the quote but the maxim is very true.
The poor dumb speaker could not see that his own arguments fell into that very same category.
But we are speaking here of speaking to dead loved ones. Wouldn't we just love to be able to that? I certainly would.
Can we not see the danger of being duped because we want so much for it to be true.
We got fooled once before by the WTS, don't lets do it again.
for the first time in a long time i actually have something to look forward to.
knowing that i no longer will be under the constraints of a oppresive religion has done a lot for me.
(and i have'nt left yet) .
You 're going to be a busy boy, just a few musical instruments?
Good luck
i'm not an elder but i do have a photocopy of the book from the net.
a number of elders in the congregation say that i should hand it over to them as "i should not have it.
" the chief reason they give for their request is that the information therein (such as the chapters on judicial cases) is not for my consumption and would not be of any use to me as i'm not an elder in the same way a book on surgical technique would be of little use to me if i wasn't a practicing surgeon.. the claim is made that those who post confidential "to the body of elders" letters on the net are being dishonest - therefore they are not christians.
Of course the elders dont want you to have it. We were always told to keep it closely guarded and not left where our family could read it. When I visited the C/O one Tuesday at the start of his visit, he had a plain brown paper jacket over his copy so as not to arouse interest from anyone.
Of course I had to hand back my copy when I was removed (or did I resign, it is a moot point)although I photo copied some more interesting pages
Any way, ANYTHING from an "Apostate" net site is dynamite as far as they are concerned.Are you sure you are not disfellowshipped yet?
i saw a 'sister' today who had never had the opportunity to ask me why i stopped going to the meetings.
she had heard some gossip, but wanted to hear it from the horses mouth, if i didn't mind.
course i didn't mind, some of it related to someone bad-mouthing her family, but i told her that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.i said i had been wishing i wasn't at the meetings for about a year beforehand, and there were lots of reasons, hypocrisy for one.during the run-up to the last memorial some one here had pointed out john6:50-60. fortunately, i still carry a small nwt in my bag, so i showed her that bit, especially verse 54, regarding partaking and resurrection.tms trained, i asked her what that implied and she said that she thought i was getting at everyone partaking.
I suppose the outcome depends a lot on the attitude of your bunch of cong elders. Some are more likely to "Go for the jugular " than others. It would be nice if it provoked some kind of response. Too many today just sit back and watch "Weak" ones fade away.
I am impressed that you carry the Bible with you, They should commend you for that!
okay, i thought since us apostates have been called bitter and angry and unable to see both sides of an issue lately i'd share a positive story about a sister in my old congregation.. this sister was my best friend's grandma.
she was in general just a kind sweet grandma type woman.
every year, she'd put together a "give away.
Ok I know that a couple of days have passed since this thread was last used, but if anyone still visits, i would add my two pence worth.
There are so many individuals that I can think of who would fit in here. There was dear old Nellie, a spinster in her late 70's who lived in a bed sit and had an open house to all the young single ones . We would all drop in to meet up, leave things for another to pick up and always be sure of a loving welcome .She radiated warmth and zeal for the "Truth" and provided an invaluable service to the stressed youth of the time.
Some of the elders that I served with, eg: D S . A builder by trade but blessed with more insight and practical wisdom than any college graduate.A genuine "Pillar" of the cong.
I could go on and on , sadly these ones are in the past now and these memories are from a long time ago . I think, as someone said above , too many elders are now from men raised in the org and have an institutional rulebook mindset , rather than experience of life.
Oh well, nostlagia does not change the present, does it?
i have a friend that was df'd last year.
he hasn't committed the "sin" in a year and doesn't plan on doing it again either.
he has been very strong and wants to get reinstated.
Hello Sally, welcome to the board.
If your friend really wants to go back, then :
1] He attends the meetings , even though the cong is not allowed to speak to him, and is not supposed to even smile or acknowlege him - and he certainly could not answer up and he has to sit at the very back and leave imediately it ends.
2} After a few months of this,no set limit, he requests a re instatement hearing from the judicial committee .
3] The hearing is set up similar to his disfellowshipping hearing. He is quizzed by three elders regarding his actions and ,most importantly, his attitude now. He has to convince them of his complete and utter repentance and a revulsion for the sin he committed.
4] if they are satisfied, and he convinces them that he really wants to be a faithfull witness, then they agree to it . The cong. gets an announcement at the next meeting that he is re instated and he is back in the fold.Restrictions may applied at the elders discretion.
That is about it
Question?
From what you have read on this board, do you really want him to go back to that narrow minded,rule bound system that only teaches untruths
Be a friend and discourage him from doing it - there is plenty of life outside .
what kind of jehovah animals do you have?
i have 2 cats, girl & boy... i'm also looking foward to the new generation of the new earthly paradise, i can finally hug a bear, without getting my ass whoop.
lol .
Of all the stupid and plainly "added to the word" beliefs perpetrated by the Borg , this has to be it
At a meeting recently , a sister said how her little boy could have a pet lion in the New World , he is allergic to fur now.
How much did I want to tell the lad that it is all a con , don't believe it !!
We all were victims of this weird belief and caused disappointment later in life... How did we believe it??
western lands pride themselves in allowing freedom of speech.. it has benefits and drawbacks.. it means that people can be exposed to ideas that are beneficial and true , also ones that are harmful and false.. for example freedom of speech allows corruption to be revealed by the press and for people to speak out against harsh regimes.. but also allows religious lies and falsehoods along with racism to be spread.. when people lack the necessary reasoning skills or are unduly effected by a certain upbringing and background freedom of speech allows people to be taken in by and to spread harmful ideas.. a good education along with a well balanced upbringing allows people to develop good reasoning and thinking ability that can ultimately improve the way their country is run and to create better lives for the majority.. when we see a lack of education , impoverished backgrounds and bad parenting this often leads those effected down the wrong path in life , though many have managed to fight their way out.. most crime is committed in deprived areas and amongst the people who live in them, where it is also obvious that children haven't the best opportunities in life.. this can lead to them thinking in a way that is different to others of a different background and they may see crime for example ,as the only way out.. the point being that background and education can have large effect on us as people.. so along with freedom of speech we have people from many varied backgrounds , this will alter what they see as a just and fair world to them.. as long as we want the right to choose what we can say and practise we must allow others to do so , even if we don't agree and really believe are wrong.. free access to a good education and upbringing can help people avoid being taken in by flawed reasoning and its results.
the key to a better world is to improve the people.. this can be done and people can be helped to avoid making big errors of judgment (such as becoming a jehovahs witness) if we can improve the lives of people in general.. better education ,elimination of poverty along with other related factors will surly help change the way many people think.
( dream on).
Voltaire said
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Thus recognizing the value of free speech in a civilised community .
Re; education. Is it co incidence that during the twentieth century, when education became more and more available, mankind took more and more notice of social issues of welfare ,even animal welfare and a valueing of the environment?
