Shootist --that's an infantile remark - how old are you ?
I suggest topic closed .....
Raphael
JoinedPosts by Raphael
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53
2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!
by nicolaou ingod tells david, "don't count my people".
david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?
choose davey boy!".
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53
2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!
by nicolaou ingod tells david, "don't count my people".
david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?
choose davey boy!".
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Raphael
Why are we fighting each other? - I gave may reasoning on the subject - I was respectful of all the other opinions and continue to be.
I am incensed when some resort to personal attacks in order to defend their position on a topic - just what I assume gives JW's fuel to stoke their opinions about "apostates"...
Little Toe - I have read a number of your posts - I actually like and respect you - despite the fact I do not share all your views.
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53
2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!
by nicolaou ingod tells david, "don't count my people".
david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?
choose davey boy!".
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53
2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!
by nicolaou ingod tells david, "don't count my people".
david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?
choose davey boy!".
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Raphael
You've evidently thought some about it, but haven't really veered far from the JW partline, huh
My insight is from the the Holy Spirit - who guides all true believers who seek truth - and not from the WTBS source of *light" or "insight" ...
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53
2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!
by nicolaou ingod tells david, "don't count my people".
david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?
choose davey boy!".
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53
2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!
by nicolaou ingod tells david, "don't count my people".
david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?
choose davey boy!".
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Raphael
I trust you know the answers to your questions.
A quote comes to mind
"None so blind as those who will not see or rather choose not too ;-)"
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53
2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!
by nicolaou ingod tells david, "don't count my people".
david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?
choose davey boy!".
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Raphael
In understanding difficult issues in Scripture , it helps to try too see things in both their historical and cultural contexts and to interpret them within the framework of Gods perfect justice /love /wisdom and power....
David was in a very privileged position - he was King ...God had place all authority and power in his hands.
Davids' sin was not just a simple error in judgement - he acted with a certain deliberateness when taking the census - he acted with a spirit of arrogance and pride - two of the sins God hates most - David knew that the consequences would be disasterous - he was not acting in ignorance.
To illustrate , I'll use a simple analogy: my young niece - 5 years old and her brother , my nephew 2 where taking a bath recently - they love bath time - because they get to splash about and make a mess as young kids generally do - their grandmother , my mum needless to say asked them not to splash water on the floor - my niece, I'm told then deliberately took a jug filled it with water and emptied it out onto the floor deliberately ;-) - why? we may ask - it seems senseless - I maintain she was trying to see how much she would get away with - before making her grandmother angry .
David did much the same ...
God in his justice - could not let this treacherous act go unpunished - even though in his heart he wanted nothing more than to forgive and wipe the slate clean - My God's heart was broken at Davids actions and heart attitude at the time , in the same way my mum may have felt at my young nieces deliberate act of naughtiness - should she walk away and forget about it - or was action required - I'll let you answer that for yourselves.
God in his infinite mercy condescends and gives David a choice - what he wants from David is simply heartfelt repentence - acknowlegment that he has sinned against God and Israel - whome might I suggest were not merely innocent bystanders - they knew Gods warning about taking a census - they too had a choice - and could easily have disobeyed David - and given God obedience instead.
God is hoping David would take responsibility for his sin - David doesn't - he fails to show hearfelt repentence - all he would need to do in order for God to turn from bringing judgement upon himself and the nation .
Instead he ums and ahs about it - and then throws it back at God as if to say well what are you going to do about it then?
God chooses - and 70000 people die - I suggest David is responsible for their deaths - he selfishly refused to take responsibilty - his actions effected an entire nation - he was their King and he acted presumptiously , with no regard for the nation God had entrusted to him - a lesson we sometimes fail to learn - our actions dont just affect us - they often have a ripple effect and especially when we are entrusted as stewards over the things that belong to God - Israel was not just any nation they were a holy nation entrusted with ultimately bringing salvation to the entire human race - "God is not one to be mocked"
Yet in his infinite love and mercy - he cuts short the plague when David finally realises the full impact of his actions and does show heartfelt repentance and humbles himself under Gods mighty hand - all God wanted in the first place!
Thats my 5 cents worth ....
Excuse the spelling errors ;-)
I'd be happy for others to add their 2 cents
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ANNIHILATIONISM VS ETERNAL TORMENT ??
by Raphael in.
a question aimed at those of you who have become christians , after your jw experiences.... how many still believe that the soul of those not saved will cease to exist at death.... personaly i believe we are multi dimensional beings - we are spirit/soul and body.... i would suggest that god can destroy body/soul and spirit and that the references to eternal torment are figurative and not literal.... a very well known christian writer " john stott", who is an evangelical christian shares these views.... .
i'm intersted in how others who still believe feel about this ?
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Raphael
A question aimed at those of you who have become Christians , after your JW experiences...
How many still believe that the soul of those not saved will cease to exist at death...
Personaly I believe we are multi dimensional beings - we are Spirit/Soul and body...
I would suggest that God can destroy body/soul and spirit and that the references to eternal torment are figurative and not literal...
A very well known Christian writer " John Stott", who is an evangelical christian shares these views...
I'm intersted in how others who still believe feel about this ??
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JW hypocrisy
by rick1199 ini am trying to build a list of hipocrisy with in the borg.
i dont mean things like the un scandal as people in the hall wont have heard of that, but smaller stuff that goes on all the time with out the rank and file noticing.
infant baptism.
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Raphael
The J'w's dont have the monopoly on hypocrisy and neither do Christians or other faith groups - you'll find it at almost every level of society and it seems to affect believers and unbelievers alike..
Some of the worst offenders in my experience are unbelievers - who denounce everyone and everything , then suggest they are the more honest, more sincere and live more upright moral lives than folk who believe , then in the next breath lie and cheat just like the rest of em...
The more oustpoken people are on an issue - the more suspect I am of their motives and their agenda...
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NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH
by Raphael inany one done some research on the above from a non jw view:.
some points of view suggest that at some point all the barriers that prohibit movement between the physical world and the spritual will be removed and that glorified bodies will allow us to materialize and dematerialize at will and to transfer as it were between the various dimensions that exist in our universe and beyond, and in this sense "god brings together all things in christ, both things on the earth and things in the heavens" and also in this sense new jerusalem comes down from heaven and god himself resides with them".. and so in this way also will those who dwell in the heavens enjoy access to the physical world in order to enjoy the whole of creation including the animal world.. .
any other points view ??.
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Raphael
It kinda adds a new dimension Jesus words - "the meek shall inherit the earth"
Also it seems most mainstream christians understand the "rule as kings over the earth" mentioned in Revelation to be figurative and indicative of the way humans will individually and collectively feel in an environment where in reality only "Love" will reign as King.
It certainly is not about 144000 humans , born between 1 AD and 1935 ruling over the rest of humanity - purely on the basis of when they were born and the rest of us unfortunates who may have missed it by a couple or more years having to wait an additional 1000 years and then only to be retested , before qualifying to be called "Gods children"...