Posts by Raphael

39

I'm Not Going To Heaven......

by prophecor in

.....but i'm going to a church that thinks they all are.

they preach a good game but in the end, i still believe in the paradise on earth theology.

i'm split right down the middle, as i cannot get away from the belief that only a few were ever good enough to get to heaven.

Raphael

LT...I agree with you...

Heaven must be as much a spiritual state of mind and heart that can be experienced right now and ultimately also a physical reality that encompasses all we are as living beings spirit, soul and body.

15

something that always bothered me as a jw was the lack of praise and worship with music at meetings , yeah there were the tapes of dull and uninspiring piano music along with the same songs that noone ever felt enthusiastic about - i actually remeber feeling embarrassed whenever i had invited a bible study or interested person along to a talk and the singing was just pathetic.. singing durring the meetings was never considered a serious act of worship, but an opportunity to visit the bathroom etc.

i also found it sad that those who did have a musical talent could not use that talent in worship - no alternative forms of musical instruments were permitted inside the kh other than the wts piano tapes - no freedom of expression to worship and praise god was ever allowed , it seems that the gb want to rob jw's of the experience of joy in worshipping god.. now that i have experienced worship and praise in a spirit filled church , i can testify just how liberating freedom of expression in worship can be...i recently came across "the psalm drummers" and highly recommend getting the cd.. http://www.psalmdrummers.org/.

Raphael

Having lived in Africa for most of my childhood and well into my teens , I have always been fascinated by drums , they play an essential role in the lives of people - from remote villages to towns and cities they are central to all sorts of occassions from a means of communication to celebrating every event from a victory in battle to announcing the birth of a child , in mourning the death of a loved one to celebrating at weddings and also in worship...

Drumming circles on beaches in South Africa are popular with young folks who gather on beaches and party the night away. As witnesses we were discouraged to attend and the idea was always that the drums were used in demonic ritual and worship - which is true in some instances - So it was refreshing for me to read the following about drums:

"The Bible drum is the 'tof' (Hebrew), which modern translators mostly render as 'tambourine'. The 'tof' is a frame drum. It has no jingles and is named after its sound - a deep thud. The modern tambourine does not truly represent the drum which appears in Scripture 16 times. God's word gives authority for the drummer to strike the drum: in celebration (1 Chron. 13:8); in praise (Ps. 150:4); in worship (Ps. 68:25); for prophecy (1 Sam. 10:5, 6); for healing (Ps. 81:2-7); and in declaration of the Lord's sovereignty (Isaiah 30:32)."

39

I'm Not Going To Heaven......

by prophecor in

.....but i'm going to a church that thinks they all are.

they preach a good game but in the end, i still believe in the paradise on earth theology.

i'm split right down the middle, as i cannot get away from the belief that only a few were ever good enough to get to heaven.

Raphael

Strangely enough I was also thinking today , how if the GB decided tomorrow that they had seen the light regarding the great crowd being in heaven - as the greek word "naos" in Revelation 7:11 implies - and everone is suddenly promoted to heaven - few would question it ...in Watchtower Land the way to the father is through the "FDS" and not through the son...I wonder if at some point they will change the NWT to read "No one comes to the father except through us ( the WTS)"

15

MUSIC IN WORSHIP

by Raphael in

.

something that always bothered me as a jw was the lack of praise and worship with music at meetings , yeah there were the tapes of dull and uninspiring piano music along with the same songs that noone ever felt enthusiastic about - i actually remeber feeling embarrassed whenever i had invited a bible study or interested person along to a talk and the singing was just pathetic.. singing durring the meetings was never considered a serious act of worship, but an opportunity to visit the bathroom etc.

i also found it sad that those who did have a musical talent could not use that talent in worship - no alternative forms of musical instruments were permitted inside the kh other than the wts piano tapes - no freedom of expression to worship and praise god was ever allowed , it seems that the gb want to rob jw's of the experience of joy in worshipping god.. now that i have experienced worship and praise in a spirit filled church , i can testify just how liberating freedom of expression in worship can be...i recently came across "the psalm drummers" and highly recommend getting the cd.. http://www.psalmdrummers.org/.

Raphael

Something that always bothered me as a JW was the lack of praise and worship with music at meetings , yeah there were the tapes of dull and uninspiring piano music along with the same songs that noone ever felt enthusiastic about - I actually remeber feeling embarrassed whenever I had invited a bible study or interested person along to a talk and the singing was just pathetic.

Singing durring the meetings was never considered a serious act of worship, but an opportunity to visit the bathroom etc. I also found it sad that those who did have a musical talent could not use that talent in worship - no alternative forms of musical instruments were permitted inside the KH other than the WTS piano tapes - no freedom of expression to worship and praise God was ever allowed , it seems that the GB want to rob JW's of the experience of joy in worshipping God.

Now that I have experienced worship and praise in a Spirit filled church , I can testify just how liberating freedom of expression in worship can be...I recently came across "The Psalm Drummers" and highly recommend getting the CD.

http://www.psalmdrummers.org/

39

I'm Not Going To Heaven......

by prophecor in

.....but i'm going to a church that thinks they all are.

they preach a good game but in the end, i still believe in the paradise on earth theology.

i'm split right down the middle, as i cannot get away from the belief that only a few were ever good enough to get to heaven.

Raphael

http://www.newfrontiers-usa.org/

39

I'm Not Going To Heaven......

by prophecor in

.....but i'm going to a church that thinks they all are.

they preach a good game but in the end, i still believe in the paradise on earth theology.

i'm split right down the middle, as i cannot get away from the belief that only a few were ever good enough to get to heaven.

Raphael

Some points of view suggest that at the end of time the barriers that prohibit movement between the physical world and the spritual will be removed and that ressurrected glorified bodies will allow us to materialize and dematerialize ,to live as it were in both the new heavens and the new earth , in this sense also "God brings together all things in Christ, both the things on the earth and the things in the heavens" New Jerusalem comes down from heaven and God himself resides with us.

You might also find the discussion on this thread of interest http://www.xjw.com/paradise.html

10

Any HIV experiences with witnesses ????

by run dont walk in

we had one brother who became a witness after he contracted hiv, he was very subdued and very willing to learn and very into the "truth", i guess that can really have an effect on you.

he was very nice, i did feel sorry for him.

it is a very sad way to die, and a terrible way to life out your last days.

Raphael

Shockingly I remeber an article in an Awake or Wachtower that dealt with HIV/AIDS written sometime in the 90's - not sure exact dates ...

The article gave instructions that any infected with the virus and whom where contemplating baptism stand at the back of the que and wait till after everyone else was baptised - so as not to stumble or cause anyone uneccessary concern.

The article went on to indictate if I remeber correctly , that these people also sit towards the back of the KH so as not to offend anyone.

If anyone else remebers the articles and can scan the pages , that would be cool.

53

2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!

by nicolaou in

god tells david, "don't count my people".

david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?

choose davey boy!".

Raphael

LittleToe...

Hope you're good fella ;-)

I think my experiences with the WTS have taught me not to be dogmatic about anything....I'm open to the Sprits leading on issues and others may well have more insight than I on a particular topic, in which case I conceed, that the Spirit may use them to teach also.

You're right God needs noone to defend him and that is not my intention and I hope thatis not the impression I have created. I'm sure God - having a great sense of humour ,sometimes looks at these posts and perhaps has a laugh and shakes his head at some of the things we come up with - at least I hope he does.

23

Circumcision....How is it justified?

by gringojj in

i am unclear on this.

it seems for most religions leave this question up to the parents.

but how do people justify it?

Raphael

Last Updated: Tuesday, 26 July, 2005, 18:59 GMT 19:59 UK alt

E-mail this to a friend

Printable version

Circumcision 'helps to halt HIV'

Foreskin cells are thought to be more susceptible to HIV

New research suggests circumcision could be effective in preventing the spread of HIV among men.

The study of more than 3,000 men in South Africa was done by the French agency for Aids and Viral Hepatitis.

The data, outlined at a conference in Brazil, shows male circumcision prevented about seven of 10 infections.

UN health agencies have cautioned that more trials are necessary before they will recommend this as a method to protect against Aids.

Previous studies have suggested that men who are circumcised have a lower rate of HIV infection.

It is thought that the cells of the foreskin are much more susceptible to HIV than cells on other parts of the penis, so by removing the foreskin, the likelihood of infection drops.

Further trials are being carried out in Uganda and Kenya to measure the effect of circumcision on other populations.

If similar results are found, then circumcision could be used alongside condoms to prevent the spread of HIV, the BBC's Ania Lichtarowicz reports from the conference in Rio de Janeiro.

But implementing this measure on a large scale will be

53

2 Samuel chapter 24 - Don't mess with God!

by nicolaou in

god tells david, "don't count my people".

david counts the people.. god tells david, "'cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment, will it be 'a' 7 years of famine, 'b' 3 months of national humiliation or 'c' 3 days of pestilence?

choose davey boy!".

Raphael

You say that "God is hoping David would take responsibility for his sin - David doesn't - he fails to show hearfelt repentence - all he would need to do in order for God to turn from bringing judgement upon himself and the nation."

In fact David did exactly that; v10 And David’s heart began to beat him after he had so numbered the people. Consequently David said to Jehovah: "I have sinned very much in what I have done. And now, Jehovah, let your servant’s error pass by, please; for I have acted very foolishly."

Nicolaou...

It is true David does feel guilty and admit his sin , asks for forgiveness ...However is it true heartfelt repentance . I would suggest that David does not realize the full impact of his actions -

I think it is also important to note that the census took place over a period of almost 9 months , before God chose to act - giving David sufficient time in which to change course.

In verses 12-13 God gives David 3 choices to test his heart...

Two of the choices involve situations that would effect the nation as a whole :

Famine would not neccessarily effect David and his family .As the Royal family we could argue that their needs would be met, famine would largely effect the most vulnerable in the nation.

The option of disease would also expose the most vulnerable and afflict the entire nation - David and his household it could be argued would have the resources to temporarily flee and so escape the situation.

My guess is that if David had chosen the option to be pursued by his enemies - this choice would perhaps indicate that he was taking full responsibilty for his sin..

Notice how God words this choice "...or will YOUR enemies chase YOU and make YOU run from tehm for 3 MONTHS...

Verse 14 tells us David was really frightened, and leaves his and the nations fate in God hands.

As I mentioned previously David seemingly fails to take full responsibilty - possibly an indication of a lack of heartfelt repentance.

God chooses and the entire nation suffer as a result ...

Verse 17 David finally realises the full impact of his sin he now takes responsibility and says in effect the nation have not sinned ..it is me who has lead them astray as leader punish ME and MY family...

God halts the slaying ...and the plague ends...

Interesting to note that in the verses that follow , David also produces works that befit repentance , by offfering sacrifices in accordance with Mosaic Law - thus making atonement for the sin .

God is vindicated as a righteous judge.