Scholar,
Domo aregato mista roboto... DOMO... domo... DOMO... domo (doing the robot dance)
Unfettered
JoinedPosts by Unfettered
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78
Research on the validity of 1914
by Bluegrass Tom inhere are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.
they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.
to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?
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I'm not a Buddhist, but...............PART 2
by Dansk inas i can't post to the original thread started by nicolaou, i'm doing so here:.
hi fleur,but the part that really, well, frankly creeped me out for lack of a better term, is that he left his wife and child, then starved himself nearly to death before he realized that this wasn't the way to go, and he lived as a homeless person, begging food as he went on his path to enlightenment.
that's a rather simplified version of events.
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Unfettered
So far, the core Buddhist beliefs that were forged based on the direct experience of advanced meditation practitioners seem to run parrallel to my own experiences. I've only recently begun to really study the foundation beliefs of Buddhism and find it very intriguing. It's quite evident that just as with Christianity people have taken the core knowledge and embellished upon it in various ways with various theories, as well as advanced some forms of it with modern day meditation experience.
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To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe
by AlmostAtheist inhey gang,.
this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.
i enter with an informed but open mind.
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Unfettered
oops left out the last word of this paragraph:
" A simple verification of this is easy for you to try. Sit down and try to ?feel? your entire body. After doing that a few moment next try to focus your attention on ?feeling? your left big toe and ONLY your left big toe. Try to get as much of your mind or consciousness fully focused on your left big toe. Notice how as you become more focused you begin to REALLY feel that toe in an extremely sensitive way and that the other feelings of your body begin to fade out and disappear. Wallah! You have just proven that our consciousness is MOBILE".
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To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe
by AlmostAtheist inhey gang,.
this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.
i enter with an informed but open mind.
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Unfettered
I'll offer my current beliefs based on personal experience gained through meditation, out of body experiences, higher states of consciousness and interactions with other beings operating at higher states of consciousness in relation to humans.
I don't expect anyone here to believe or accept my experiences or to completely understand the information. I offer it as only an idea to think about. I agree with a previous post in that personal experience is essential to any "belief" and/or true knowledge. The only way to truly know is to experience and this is indeed in part our purpose for existing in this "simulated" reality environment we call human existence on earth. So, here's the lowdown from my point of view in as simplistic terms as possible.
There is a God or Super consciousness. This super consciousness was not necessarily intelligent or all knowing in human terms in the beginning. In a sense it was all knowing because nothing else existed thus there wasn't much to know anyway. This consciousness or force had the ability to choose. Rather than remaining inert it chose to ACT or change itself. We are talking in very simplistic terms but perhaps this consciousness indeed started very simply.
This force had nothing with which to compare itself or use as a reference so it decided to create the illusion of self division? yet not being truly divided. Imagine taking a long balloon the clowns use at parties to make balloon animals etc. You can twist parts of the balloon to make separate sections of self-contained air pockets or segments. However, these segments are still connected and make up the whole balloon? there is no true pure division, but a portion of the essence of the balloon does appear separate namely the air inside each pocket or segment as the balloon is twisted and manipulated? the illusion of division is created through manipulation of the thing itself.
Once this force or consciousness began to divide itself into individual fully conscious segments it could now use these other segments as points of reference. This act of division was really the first act of creation, evolution, and ?thought? or conception. These seemingly individual segmented consciousnesses began to interact with one another and explore their own existence in relation to one another. They also began to explore the various new and interesting ways that they could twist and change their own internal essence to cause more internal divisions within themselves.
This process of inner division gave rise to internal dynamics we might call laws. With each new twisting and changing these consciousnesses gained in complexity and began to ?learn? and ?grow? and through their own internal interaction as well as their interactions with each other began to actually become more intelligent and ?self-aware?. They were literally growing and evolving as they experimented with inner change and external interaction.
Since none of these consciousnesses is ever truly completely divided from the rest (they all still being connected), the original consciousness still existed, but was now much more than it was originally. It was growing internally and gaining complexity and intelligence, knowledge, and awareness. Since all the individual consciousnesses were all connected they found they could communicate and in fact shift their points of awareness into other consciousness segments so that they could change their ?point of view? so to speak. For example, when you look through a pair of binoculars you zoom in on a particular area far away to the complete visual exclusion of most objects that are near to you. However, when you put the binoculars away from your eyes you now can see the whole picture of what?s near and far in one shot. So, this consciousness found that things could be experienced both through the perception of individual segments at a microscopic level, and also from the super conscious at the macroscopic level. These consciousnesses gave rise to the creation of literally millions of universes, galaxies, solar systems, planets, and life forms.
Every ?segment? of energy that exists is literally a form of conscious energy. When certain forms of energy come together in the appropriate complexity higher levels of intelligence and self-awareness are expressed and experienced. For example, the energy that makes up the molecules that make up an individual cell in your body is a form of consciousness. That cell has a lower form of consciousness than the form of consciousness that you perceive from the macroscopic view of being the ?god? of your whole body. Yet, each cell of your body IS you and makes up a portion of your collective consciousness. Just like ?god?, you have the ability to ?shift? the focus of your consciousness from being macroscopic to that of a more microscopic level.
A simple verification of this is easy for you to try. Sit down and try to ?feel? your entire body. After doing that a few moment next try to focus your attention on ?feeling? your left big toe and ONLY your left big toe. Try to get as much of your mind or consciousness fully focused on your left big toe. Notice how as you become more focused you begin to REALLY feel that toe in an extremely sensitive way and that the other feelings of your body begin to fade out and disappear. Wallah! You have just proven that our consciousness is
It?s amazing how many of us are so unaware of this one very basic reality of our existence. Self-awareness is literally the key Rosetta Stone if you will to the secrets of the universe.
You and I are literally pieces of ?God? or the super conscious being that conceived all. There is a higher consciousness above each one of us from which we were divided and ?born? or ?conceived?. Above that higher consciousness entity is yet another higher consciousness entity from which it was conceived, and another, and another, and another etc until you get to the top. How far up it goes upward or how far removed from the macroscopic view we are I do not know. However, I do know that we as humans are very much like cells in the body of God. We may not be as powerful or as intelligent as that being, but we are loved none the less just as you love your fingers and toes etc.
God literally EXPERIENCES creation DIRECTLY through us. He experiences what we experience because we are a part of him. For this reason he literally feels our pain? every pain, joy, ecstasy, orgasm, love, hate, fear, guilt, etc...
It is both correct and incorrect to state that we are God. We are Gods of our own universe? our own minds. We literally create within our own minds just as we were created out of the mind of the consciousness directly above us. We are literally part of God. However, from our point of view having our consciousness focused through this vessel the human body we are not the God of the universe. Yet, it is possible to ?communicate? and/or shift our perception to higher states of consciousness or ?points of view?. Just as we can shift our point of focus within our body, we can shift our point of focus to ANY point of perception which is connected to us? which is literally EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE, and EVERYONE.
I have literally experienced an experience through the eyes of another person.This is where my out of body and meditation experiences come in. When I leave my body I literally shift my consciousness to another higher perspective in which I can see that this world and universe from a more macroscopic point of view. Sometimes my consciousness shifts so that I am experiencing something through the eyes or body of another person. For example, I am a man and during one meditation experiences my consciousness shifted into the body of a woman while she was being raped. I felt the horror, the guilt, the terror, and humiliation of being raped from the perspective of a woman.
My experiences have vast implications for the purpose of life and how we deal with things in our lives. However, I acknowledge that no matter how extensive my own personal experiences are, they are still limited in their own ways just as much as anyone?s and I do not hold a patent on ?truth?. I can only comment on my experience and what I feel I have learned thus far and let you work out the truth for yourself through your own experience.
There are also things I?ve experienced that would be very difficult to explain or speak about unless you yourself had experienced them. Everyone has their own experience and we never truly understand each other until we?ve had similar experiences.
I will share however some important reasons we as conscious entities have decided to place ourselves in this limiting simulated environment of earth within this particular universe:
1) To exist in an environment with more limitations so as to produce qualities of strength of mind, discipline, focus, and self-control.
2) To exist in an environment of consequence (action producing consequences that must be dealt with and felt) that teach qualities of responsibility, compassion, love, and caring for self and others.
When a new self-aware consciousness is divided off or ?conceived? it is inherently and necessarily self-focused, undisciplined, week minded, erratic, uncaring, and irresponsible? not unlike a baby.
When placed in an environment such as earth it begins to learn through direct experience to develop traits which make or force it ?grow up? in regard to these qualities, and then to gradually begin working in ?unity? with the ?collective consciousness? to create rather than acting in a disharmonious destructive manner.
As I stated, I don?t expect anyone to believe this. I do hope however, that some of you might consider it, think upon it, and perhaps take the next step of personal experimentation and personal experience which is in my opinion the best and ultimate teacher.
There are very specific ways to develop the necessary self-awareness to transcend the limits of the physical body and raise up to higher states of consciousness. These techniques and principles have been confirmed through the collective experiences of spiritual peoples all over the world. I would be happy to share some of these with those that are interested in seeking higher states of awareness? and to those that are not interested and would simply dismiss all I?ve written out of hand, perhaps at least I?ve provided an interesting story for you. If anyone is interested maybe we can start a thread for those interested so as not to disturb those that are not and/or those that might be offended by even considering such ideas.
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Research on the validity of 1914
by Bluegrass Tom inhere are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.
they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.
to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?
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Unfettered
rolfl.....
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78
Research on the validity of 1914
by Bluegrass Tom inhere are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.
they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.
to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?
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Unfettered
Don't be too hard on scholar. It's obvious he hasn't yet actually looked at any "secular evidence". I also find it amusing that he calls himself scholar so as to in some way validate his position as being one of authority. Gee, I wonder where he learned to do that? Perhaps the good old governing body tactics of self-appointment and title as the sole channel of god has rubbed off on him?
I understand the mentality of scholar. I've been there... I believed that what the society has taught was "the truth". So, anything that doesn't agree with it MUST be a lie. Thus, in his mind all the evidence must support his opinion and thus there's no need to actually go out and read any of it. To do even do so would be to admit the possibility that what he has been taught all these years is not the truth. However, a REAL seeker of truth says... "God, show me the truth NO MATTER WHAT THE TRUTH IS". You have to admit, even amongst those that have successfully departed the borg, we still have beliefs and misconceptions we do not easily abandon. How many of us could really handle the full TRUTH no matter what it really is? our own beliefs and preconceptions limit us. Scholar is on his own path... perhaps a path some of us have already travelled. He's just at a different point or juncture.
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2 Tim. 3:16
by kwintestal in"all scripture is inspired by god".
when this was written, was it referring to the ot only, or did it refer to the nt as well which hadn't yet been compiled?
did paul know that the letters he was writing would form the nt bible cannon?
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Unfettered
What's interesting about that is that there are a LOT of other books or scriptures that existed in Jesus day that the jews used along with the "accepted" modern day bible scripture that were considered holy and inspired. Indeed, Jesus himself quoted from the book of Enoch (of which you can look up and read) and his brother Jude quoted a huge portion of the book in his little book near Revelation.
Now, the society does not like to comment on the Book of Enoch or Jude's comment very much for good reason. The book blatently contradicts many of the current JW teaching as well as that of other "christian" orgs and also contains no small amount of inaccurate scientific information. The old reasoning of the society is that Jude was not quoting from the Book of Enoch but that the Book of Enoch was a later creation after the disciples had written their work. However, there's a mountain of modern evidence proving that the book of enoch was written at least 300 years before Jesus and in the Gospels Jesus makes several statements that seem like direct quotes from it. Go figure it was used prominently by the Essenes as well and Jesus seems to have at the least to have studied with the Essenes if he actually wasn't a renegade Essene himself.
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Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-21-04 WT Study
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the 11-21-04 wt study (october 15, 2004 1st article)
review comments
will be in black and parentheses ().
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Unfettered
I really like the Twain quote. Very appropriate. I think we go in phases. We search we believe we find so we get excited. Then, after we have digested what we thought was the truth... as we become more intimately aware of what we have actually found instead of what we wanted to find, we realize that perhaps we have acquired one or two more piece of the puzzle but the sought after whole picture is still lacking. So, we move on to becoming searchers again.
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Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-21-04 WT Study
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the 11-21-04 wt study (october 15, 2004 1st article)
review comments
will be in black and parentheses ().
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Unfettered
Thanks for the welcome. I generally don't share unless asked, but just got the itch to comment.
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Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-21-04 WT Study
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the 11-21-04 wt study (october 15, 2004 1st article)
review comments
will be in black and parentheses ().
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Unfettered
I was pretty much raised a JW. However, at the age of 13 began having extremely vivid out of body experiences... including times when I would turn around and see myself lying on the bed. However, my JW training made me deny them as such, and I described them to others as "lucid" dreams. It wasn't until I was about 25 that I finally understood what they were. At that point I had a very powerful experience with an Angel/Guide which came and took me on a "tour" of heaven and explained a few things to me... the tour included different "levels" of heaven.
Previously, I had been a ministerial servant in excellent standing in line to be an elder. I was on the Talk circuit with the congregations in our area and was regularly used at the assemblies for demonstrations and talks. For about a good 6 months to a year before I left I had begun to have a gnawing in the pit of my gut about the fact that I was missing some key elements of the "truth" and that they society had some things wrong. That was quite evident from my own experiences. I think my experience is quite powerful in that you've got someone who absolutely doesn't believe in Out of Body experiences because he's been trained to believe that way and who is very zealous for the organization and yet, is absolutely having out of body experiences and understandably has great difficulty rationalizing the experiences against the beliefs instilled by the organization. I started to realize that I needed to "exit" and get some space and freedom to do some real study of the issue. One day I just moved away and haven't been to a meeting since. That was about seven years ago or so. Since then, I practice meditation almost daily and have had some amazing experiences that absolutely validate to me that truth is not the property of any religious organization. Truth is found from personal experience and exploration. Jesus said to search for truth like hidden treasure continually... he didn't say to stop. Yet it seems a lot of people in religions stop searching and just let their religion spoon feed them.