Posts by dilaceratus

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Hillary_step: If it is not an impossible scenario, then he has every right to speculate on such a matter. It may be an improbable, but certainly not an impossible one.

Given some of the rank lunacy that is posted to this board with pass by without comment, I think you are being unreasonable.

Were one to attempt to name those most responsible for devastating criticism of the WTBTS's claims using the digits of one hand, AlanF would surely be one of those little piggies. With that authority comes a commensurate responsibility, for his statements (even of opinion and speculation) carry more weight, and are rightly taken more seriously. There are any number of posts on this very thread which indicate that, for some, his speculation has been immediately adopted as fact. Their non-evidence-based beliefs are not his responsibility, but this thread is.

[Ecce signum,]
[Dilaceratrus]

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Auld Soul: Once again, your powers of perception have underwhelmed me. You have misinterpretted the central thesis of AlanF et. al. and have consistently misrepresented said thesis from the point of your misinterpretation forward until now.

The thesis is actually as follows: that some member(s) of the WTBTS' hierarchy, who do understand that their chronology is defenseless, have manufactured Thirdwitness in order to mount an Internet campaign attacking secular history.

Once again, your ability to read for content is appalling. Never mind your failed search for visual clues that a joke was being made in two sentences which contained: a) two facetious misspellings, b) an italicized segment, and, c) two exclamatories. Did you even read the post AlanF started this thread with?

AlanF: The last fifteen years have seen the death of many long time Watchtower policy makers. With their deaths, a new generation of leaders is gradually coming into power and influence, especially under the influence of that arch-conservative Ted Jaracz. Jaracz and his cronies appear to be singularly unaware that certain critical Watchtower doctrines and practices have no support in the Bible or in terms of secular arguments, and they seem to have lost a sense of history in terms of proclaiming "the end is near". It makes sense that normal people would avoid such a proclamation, but the present JW leadership is far from normal. They've lost the experience and perspective of the previous generation of JW leaders, and so it seems logical that such new leaders might attempt to defend "the faith" aggressively, and combine it with a proclamation that "the end is near".

Any such defense would have to be covert, in the sense that whatever GB member or WTS official leading the charge, or giving the green light, would have to keep all connections to those in the field secret from other JWs. This would be necessary because the Society has directly instructed JWs to avoid the Internet at all costs. It is also a WTS tradition that only those directly appointed by it are allowed to publish public defenses.

Given the above, I have a strong suspicion that thirdwitness and his collaborators are either Bethelites, or JWs with extremely close ties to Bethel, or both, all of whom have been given the green light by Watchtower officials to get on the Internet and do battle with JW critics.

Unfortunately, these defenders have bitten off more than they can chew. Having been steeped in the JW cult for a long time, they've lost the power for independent thought. They think that whatever nonsense the Society puts out should be accepted on the authority of the Society alone. They think that facts are there only to support the Society's claims, and when the facts don't fit, they follow the Society's tradition of ignoring them. They've made an extreme tactical blunder in posting their defenses on a open forum, where critics pay no attention to the Society's claims of authority, and deal with the facts. These defenders simply aren't used to getting their asses kicked in doctrinal debates, because in the JW world, debate does not occur.

Auld Soul: The next time you think to criticize others, make sure you correctly understand their position prior to making a public attempt. Otherwise, you come off seeming foolish.

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Auld Soul: The purpose of thirdwitnesses posts is not to positively assert data in favor of the Watchtower Society's chronology and explanations, but to challenge and debate the validity of the current view of secular history.

So you now disagree with AlanF and his friend M. from the Circus's central thesis: that some member(s) of the WTBTS' hierarchy, who do not understand that their chronology is defenseless, have manufactured Thirdwitness in order to mount an Internet campaign defending their beliefs?
What of their "glitzy" website? Does it now seem reasonable to conclude that someone other than the Watchtower is able to use CSS?

Utimately, even if thirdwitness is an agent of the Governing Body, it doesn't matter beyond trying to determine what WTS agenda might be driving this new strategy.

Thirdwitness self-destructs the moment they attempt to debate, and their self-serving and nonsensical arguments are plain to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills. The fact that Thirdwitness maintains that a city does not exist that unquestionably does is really all that need be said about them. Even if it were a "new strategy" by the WTBTS it is grossly incompetent, but the "conspiracy" alleged to be behind it is contradictory. (The conspiring bigwigs don't understand the holes in their beliefs; therefore, in a secret attempt to do some damage control, instead of debating the issues they don't know they're wrong about, they scheme to concoct a persona with a wide range of idiosyncratic and non-Watchtower beliefs to do so for them... Q.E.D.)
The only evidence is that Thirdwitness admitted that its postings were a collaborative work! Exactly what one would expect of a proxy.
What does matter is that a thread that has been viewed over 3,000 times by a poster highly respected for the quality and logic of his writing irresponsibly attaches an inflammatory supposition onto Thirdwitness, without any evidence other than another's "intuition." There are a hundred different ways such a guess might have been investigated privately. I object to such content-free bullying, whatever the source, or the target.

47

Any Dubs in your Hall that were puportedly "Demonized"?

by Sailor Ripley in

jw
friends

we had a whole family that moved into our congo when i was about 10. they had kids from 6 to 16-years-old.

there was always talk of their beds spinning and shoes floating, et cetera.

they lived in a literal shack so i didn't want to go there to spend the night, but i always wanted to go and "check it out" to see some fireworks.

dilaceratus

At one time I suffered from sleep apnea. They did a sleep study on me, and found that when I stopped breathing my O2 levels went dangeroulsy low. - Low enough to cause what the doctor called "Hypo Induced Hallucinations." Another name for this is "Night Terror" or "Waking Terror." Very scary stuff. It is basically having a nightmare while you are wide awake with your eyes open. One of my worst was when I awoke to see a man standing over my bed. He seemed COMPLETELY real. I jumped out of bed and took a swing at him, and he disapeared. Another common one was "waking" to see huge spiders all over the bed. Yet another was having the ceiling cave in on me. All VERY real. When I got my CPAP machine, this all stopped. But I can only imagine what the Elders would have said, if I told them what was going on. But I think that a lot of "demon possession" is based on the above.

And here is a person who feels entirely competent to have weapons in his home as defense.

Amazing how you are twenty-two times more likely to kill someone you know than an actual attacker.

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Auld Soul: Perhaps my usage was unclear. A person might make a regular practice of bathing, yet have the habit of biting their nails. The ideas are distinct, one being a chosen method, and the other having a less conscious, and less rational, aspect.

AlanF: Obviously the Jaracz story was facetious, to illustrate the absurdity of the claim that some one, or some group, of Watchtower personnel have created the Thirdwitness persona. Kindly explain what sort of credibility their custom-built spokesperson managed to work up with either ex-Witnesses, or on-the-fence or fading Witnesses, with their twenty pages of bizarre claims that the city of Tyre does not exist. Perhaps the Watchtower highhats in charge of this plan hoped to make their own spectacular failures look less silly, compared to the blinding flameouts of Thirdwitness?

AF: The problem is how to get hold of the required substance. Obviously these guys are not going to tell anyone.

Kindly explain why this master infiltrator and carefully conceived Watchtower-bot has failed to respond to most direct questions, yet cheerfully admitted to being the work of several sources. That's the amazing thing about those wiley Eth'lites, they have no trouble at all obfuscating about the Hillah Stele, but when asked a direct question, they are compelled to answer honestly! It's their only weakness!

You know enough about evolutionary theory to understand that any available niche will be filled. With the Watchtower too leaden (and averse to exposing itself to competition) to understand that the the industrialized world's social marketplace is rapidly moving online, it is hardly surprising that others of the same general mindset will attempt to fill this gap. This is just basic economics-- there is a market for apocalyptic mumbo-jumbo among the uneducated, incompetent, and mentally ill. If the Watchtower does not reach these innumerable numbers who are online, it does not require a conspiracy to suggest that other unscrupulous people will do so.

If Ozziepost's comment about Thirdwitness monitoring this thread is based on genuine information, and not simply taunting, this group must be creaming to have been taken so seriously.

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

A speculation is a guess based on incomplete or non-existent evidence. A rumor is a report about someone else, typically malicious. These are the foundations upon which Jehovah's Witnesses (and other fundamentalist groups) base their presumptuous judgments, not the other way around.

I cannot think why someone would wish to align themselves with tendencies toward either of these traits-- especialy when one had been previously duped by these methods, and knows the damage that they can do.

Speculation regarding the relationship between the Watchtower Society and multiple posters who have admitted that a single pro-JW account is being shared by more than one person is a safeguard, not a bad habit.

What threat is it that overwhelms you, in this medium, that you must safeguard? If your facts are strong, and your argument based on those facts, it is hardly a desperate battle (if it is, in fact, yours to fight).

Attempting to castigate by speculation and rumor Thirdwitness, Scholar, et al, based on their real or imagined affiliations is a low form of bullying. That their arguments are immediately revealed to be deceitful, porous, and unsustainable is evident whether they are shills, secret agents, or just silly men.

If it could be revealed with some substance that Thirdwitness were in the direct employ of the WTBTS, this would be interesting (and comical) only in what it revealed of their methods, interests, and possibly deperation. As it related to the threads Thirdwitness started and posted to, it would be irrelevant.

No substance has yet been offered, however.

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Auld Soul: I find your capacity to imagine sorely wanting if this is the only hypothesis you can come up with to explain the phenomenon we have witnessed from thirdwitness.

Alas, until the much-publicized but long-delayed improvements to this message board appear (which will allow me to add an appropriate level of digitally canned hilarity as auditory clues to my zingers), short of the dishonorable typographical turds known as Emoticons, there is no simple way for me to clue in the autistically literal of my subtle humors, save the context, content, and punctuation.

To satisfy what we have seen, one need only imagine that the organizational "heavies" AT SOME LEVEL assigned a group of technophiles to covertly create Web sites designed to support the Watchtower Society dogma and publicly appear to address certain issues online which the Watchtower Society does not DARE address in Watchtower publications. It is not a stretch that these same defenders would be called on to direct attention to these created sites on apostate forums, engage in a bit of argumentation, but not too much argumentation from any one person, to avoid the possibility of original thoughts intruding.

Then how much easier it must be to imagine that a few fringe-Witnesses, lacking their own publishing company and worldwide distribution network, but still with a yen for annoying other people, would do the exact same thing. When the word gets out, there will soon be all sorts of lunatics peddling their hare-brained ideas about religion on the web.
I have commented previously that the entire psychology of Jehovah's Witnesses is one of rumor and speculation; old habits die hard, but they should die.

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

What is proposed here is that, either at their own behest, or under the instructions of a superior, the "character" of Thirdwitness was created by an agent of the WTBTS. This implies a level of intellectual organization and ability to define (and even laugh at) their own weaknesses that simply does not exist among fundamentalists (whose dogged literalism is what defines them). In this scenario one then has to imagine Ted/Karla resting his work-fevered, hairless cranium against the window as dawn approaches, his tired, hooded eyes suddenly sparkling with glee... his creation has found versimillitude with one single, master stroke: an unshakable faith in the never-rebuilt city of Tyre! "Check, and mate, you wiley poztate. Check and mate."

On the other hand, is it not far more straightforward to suggest that, as world events have become less stable, that more disaffected, marginal Witnesses will come to the fore with their crackpot theories? That some of these might be brighter and occasionally more capable with English than Scholar is not exactly a statistical surprise. That some of these might even be former Bethelites is not impossible, but mimicing the style and logical merry-go-rounds of Watchtower publications requires only the heavy immersion in same-- it is possible to find such dreary examples of writing pretty much anywhere Witnesses or former Witnesses are to be found.

16

Evolution Question

by LtCmd.Lore in

i have a scientific question that has to do with evolution that i've ment to ask, due to the recent awake:.

if two dwarfs mate and have a child, will the child be a dwarf?

what about two people with six fingers on each hand?

dilaceratus

Actually, the allele for polydactylism is dominant. However, a dominant or recessive trait has nothing to do with its expression within a population. The matchup of two dominant polydactyl alleles likely ends in miscarriage, preventing its dispersion.

This information is so basic it is taught in high schools, yet somehow manages to not register with the editors of the Awake magazine?

15

Evolution - and the Long Overdue Synthesis

by metatron in

jw
friends

when you look at the evolution vs creation controversy, the impression you get is similar to hezbollah and the.

israelis encountering their differences!

on the one hand, we have the view that a bearded fellow on a throne specifically.

dilaceratus

Wow, how come all those evidence-based people who thought the earth was a spheroid and speculation-based people who thought the earth was a round disc couldn't come to such an easy "synthesis"? Obviously, the middle ground is the truth, and the earth is a cylinder.