Posts by dilaceratus

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Hillary_step: I have answered the question that you posed. A person who was not arguing with an agenda would have seen that, but you have no intention of grasping the point deliceratus.

This is a lie.

Q: Under what circumstances, or by what denial, might Thirdwitness dispute or clear himself of this charge of being a purposefully manufactured creation of the WTBTS, "theoretically" made by AlanF?

HS (5892): Why should he need to?

* * *

Example One:

Q: May I have my jacket, please?

HS: [no reply]

Q: May I have my jacket, please?

HS: [no reply]

Q: May I have my jacket, please?

HS: [no reply]

Q: May I have my jacket, please?

HS: Why should you need to?

Q: You again fail to answer the question posed.

HS: I have answered the question that you posed. A person who was not arguing with an agenda would have seen that, but you have no intention of grasping the point.

* * *

Example Two:

Q: Under what circumstances...

HS: Why should he need to?

Q: By what denial...

HS: Why should he need to?

Q: How might Thirdwitness dispute...

HS: Why should he need to?

Q: How might he clear...

HS: Why should he need to?

Q: You again fail to answer the question posed.

HS: I have answered the question that you posed. A person who was not arguing with an agenda would have seen that, but you have no intention of grasping the point.

* * *

Oh really! Are you studying at Drama School perchance - abuse of power LOL. On a bloody discussion board. Now I have read it all.

Really? Eight pages in you are just now realizing that my complaint refers to an abuse of power (bullying)? What a miracle, since this was only mentioned in my third comment to this thread (88, 10 August), and has formed the core of my comments since then. Your ability to read carefully is certainly on par with your capabilities to debate in a mature and deliberate manner.

The issue of racism has not once been mentioned on this thread, because it has NOTHING to do with the point at hand. The issue of the possibility of ThirdWitness working with WTS backing has been speculated upon, because it has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE THREAD.

The issue of racism has been mentioned in this thread, several times, by me, in direct correspondence to your stupid question about whether there is a "possibility" that Thirdwitness is receiving help from Bethel (in contrast to being an agent of the Governing Body, as AlanF speculates). You seem to believe that a "possibility" gives one license to speculate as irresponsibly as they wish, so long as they attach a qualifier. There is a "possibility" that cold fusion works, there is a "possibility" that space aliens were responsible for the design and construction of the Egyptian pyramids, and there is a "possibility" that, in his secret heart, AlanF is a racist. I do not believe any of these "possibilities" to have any factual basis, since there is no evidence to support these claims, but to deny the "possibility" of there being some unknown fact to any of these questions would be as childish as attempting to prove the validity of an argument based on the lack of a negative.

[YIC,]

[Deliceratus]

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Hillary_step:

Under what circumstances, or by what denial, might Thirdwitness dispute or clear himself of this charge of being a purposefully manufactured creation of the WTBTS, "theoretically" made by AlanF?

Why should he need to? AlanF merely speculated, as I might about your capacity to think clearly, about the motives of a poster to this board who by his own admission eventaully admitted that he was in conjunction with a group of advisers.

You again fail to answer the question posed, which is beginning to suggest that you find it unanswerable. I believe that when such a question is unanswerable, that it represents an abuse of power.

Why he should need to answer a widespread rumor instigated by AlanF has already been stated, for example, in post 94. Should AlanF's intuitive friend, "M.", without presenting any evidence, but by dint of authority, proclaim to this board his serious speculation that Hillary_step was likely employed as a mole for the WTBTS, working closely in league with Mr Cano on a "special project," you might find yourself more inclined to wonder about whether such a speculation might be need to be answered.

Now, perhaps you might answer my question. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that ThirdWitness may indeed be acting in concert with some part of the WTS? If it is not beyond the realms of possibility, why do you appear to be stricken that AlanF has so speculated?

I stated that I would revisit this question when you were prepared to answer whether it was a "possibility" that AlanF were a racist. Apparently the absurdity of these fallacious questions has yet to settle.

I have noticed that you appear to be misinformed as to the public speculation AlanF has made, however:

AlanF (4619): dilaceratus said:
: What is proposed here is that, either at their own behest, or under the instructions of a superior, the "character" of Thirdwitness was created by an agent of the WTBTS.
That pretty well sums it up.

So your question ought to be, "Is it beyond the realm of possibility that the persona of Thirdwitness has been manufactured under the authority of the WTBTS?"

Having seen no evidence presented on this board, having read counter-explanations by other posters detailing how Thirdwitness has been around for some years in a number of knotheaded forums, having presented counter-evidence myself (the twenty pages of stupid Thirdwitness claims that the city of Tyre does not exist), and having now read through some of the other message boards Thirdwitness has posted to, I would say that this claim is beyond the realm of possibility.

Someone with evidence to counter this impression would surely be an exciting turn.

[Warm Kisses,]

[Delicaratus]

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Hillary_step: One can always assume that a debater recognizes the defeat of his argument when[,] rather than dealing with the issues at hand [--such as a legitimate question, posed repeatedly], he focuses on his opponent[']s spelling errors [and lack of critical thinking skills]. - Hillary Step, [amended]

Hillary_step (5891): perhaps you should spend more time thinking of the content of your posts rather than the way you present them, or for that matter spend any time worrying about my Spelling.

Hillary_step (5889): I will leave it to the readers to trawl your posts and my responses to see just who is being disjointed and juvenile.

Then you suggest that it is the ultimate in fair debate and sophisticated dialactics to misspell your correspondent's screenname over a dozen times? What a laudatory practice, and certainly not what one would expect from someone who appears to have a desire, but not the expertise, to defend bullying.

I fail to see how your repeated attempts to dodge the direct question which lies at the heart of my complaint about this thread can make The Lurkers who have viewed this thread well over a thousand times in the past twenty-four hours anything but curious as to your actual purpose.

[Respectfully,]

[Deliceratus]

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

What lengths of far-famed ages, billow'd high,

With human agitation, roll along

In insubstantial images of air!

--Edward Young, Night Thoughts on Life, Death, and Immortality: In Nine Nights. (1741)

As this thread continues on to another page without meaningful reply, the question is again posed (sotto voce: for the Lurkers):

Under what circumstances, or by what denial, might Thirdwitness dispute or clear himself of this charge of being a purposefully manufactured creation of the WTBTS, "theoretically" made by AlanF?

Hillary_step: Structured vocabulary is no substitute for critcal thinking. The two need to be used together to have any meaning, but at least you are half way there.

Perhaps while I churn away at my Logic Puzzles, you might find this an opportune time to work on your Spelling.

[Best Regards,]

[Deliceratus]

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Hillary_step (5885): I catually made no designation whatsoever and I presumed in your hurry to throw an avalanche of words my way, you used a term incorrectly.

An assignation:

Hillary_step (5882): Now a person can only be bullied by words on a discussion board and not actions obviously. Words are received and processed intellectually. Get my drift?

Hillary_step (5885): Where was any mention made of the emotional health of either ThirdWitness, or AlanF by myself, or even hinted at?

A hint:

Hillary_step (5880): Poor hapless XJW's, who are unable to distinguish right from wrong, and rely on important authority figures to chart their miserable little lives. Most people on this Board have grown up way beyond what you credit them with Dilaceratus. I would not worry about their emotional health...

You complain of repetitiveness, yet continue to circle in ways that do not further discussion. You continue in the juvenile pursuit of asking me to pass judgment on a blatantly fallacious argument for a possibility. (When you respond to my query as to whether it is a possibility, not probable, but a possibility that AlanF is a racist, we will perhaps revisit the issue.) I will take your increasing disjointedness and failure to respond to any of the germane points of my posts (particularly 97) to be the effects of a tardy bedtime.

And again: under what circumstances, or by what denial, might Thirdwitness dispute or clear himself of this charge, "theoretically" made? When such a question is unanswerable, it is the result of an abuse of power.

[Redacted Emoticon,]

[Deliceratus]

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Pistoff: ADDRESS THE ARGUMENT.

As I did two hours and thirteen minutes before you made your demand?

I do feel that, short some new information, this is becoming an unproductive discussion.

SWAK,

[Dilatedanus]

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Hillary_step: You certainly are a very slippery creature.

Really? Then who is it that chopped off the last line of my quote, which fully answers your supposed complaint about my response?>

Deliceratus: Perhaps you can describe for me some stimulus that is not processed intellectually. Whether agonizing or orgasmic, any experience that is to be described must first be intellectualized. Your designation is meaningless.

My interest in this thread has nothing to do with Thirdwitness, who is clearly a boob. I am not concerned for either his emotional or intellectual health, nor for that of AlanF. I do have a passing interest in injustice.

AlanF crushing Thirdwitness because his facts and arguments are superior is not an injustice: Thirdwitness chose to participate. AlanF starting a thread which, without any evidence, suggests that Thirdwitness is a persona manufactured by the WTBTS society is an injustice, where one poster, much more powerful, whether intentionally or not, by weight of their influence is bullying another.

Under what circumstances, or by what denial, might Thirdwitness dispute this charge, "theoretically" made?

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Auld Soul: If you meant authority in the sense you now assert, the proper usage would be:
dilaceratus: As an authority he has a commensurate responsibility to...

What I wrote was: "With that authority comes commensurate responsibility..." Read by someone fairly literate, this would be easily understood as: "With that [power and influence conferred by respect, long-established reputation, and mental superiority] comes commensurate responsibility..."

As in, for example, in Milton's Paradise Lost:

Truth, wisdom, sanctitude severe and pure,

(Severe, but in true filial freedom placed,)

Whence true authority in men; . . .

You appear to contradict yourself, in chiding me for what you feel to be too formal a word choice (on an "informal board"-- as opposed to, say, JWO?), and then immediately chastising me for what you (incorrectly) perceive to be poor usage. Is the "good communication" you speak so longingly of some sort of code for, "Speak slowly, former Jehovah's Witnesses present"? Hillary_step seems to think otherwise.

Is there any chance you will resist posting another reckless accusation about the content of my posts until you have given it at least a half an hour or so to sink in?

Hillary_step: You describe AlanF as posting a thread that amount to 'bullying'. Now a person can only be bullied by words on a discussion board and not actions obviously. Words are received and processed intellectually. Get my drift?

Perhaps you can describe for me some stimulus that is not processed intellectually. Whether agonizing or orgasmic, any experience that is to be described must first be intellectualized. Your designation is meaningless.

Still, to follow your line of rationale, it would be dangerous for anyone's "intellectual health" for them to not immediately post whatever speculation popped into their head, however harmful, scurrilous, or untrue it may be. Should we conclude, then, that your own imagination is lacking, or that your own intellectual health compromised?

Given these admissions, the speculation proposed by AlanF is not out of the bounds of possibility. Or do you think that it is? Please state your position.

Having no evidence other than a claim by Thirdwitness that his work was collaborative, I haven't the slightest idea whether it might be possible or not. It is surely unlikely, given the Tyre argument, previous e-Watchman affiliation, and participation in the screwy Jehovah Ring. Mightn't it be improbable, but not impossible, that AlanF is a racist? Or that Raymond Franz was selected by Fred to serve as a Goldstein? Or that Scholar is none other than Peter Carey, having some fun? Please state your position.

LYLAS,

[Deliceratus]

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Auld Soul: Your argument assumes heirarchy of authority that does not exist.

Your argument assumes the simple-minded literalism that a word can not have multiple, simultaneous meanings.

To wit: Authority: an expert whose views are taken as definitive; "he is an authority on corporate law" (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=authority)

Your conjectured rambling that effective, incisive, even devastating criticism grants someone AUTHORITY that would bear RESPONSIBLITY has no VALIDITY. It smacks of the same sort of argument used by thirdwitness, scholar and other posters regarding Jonsson or Franz. As though Jonsson or Franz has authority over us. AlanF is responsible for and has authority over exactly one person, as far as I know, namely himself.
[...]
Your argument assumes heirarchy of authority that does not exist. Whereas the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has a heirarchy of authority, we do not. If you hoped to find one, or hoped to hold anyone's feet to the fire over what someone else believed based on a comment by a poster here, you are out of luck. If people agree with AlanF as to the strength of likelihood that this may be a campaign of some sort that doesn't mean they (1) view it as a threat, (2) agree with the exact nature as initially expressed by AlanF, or (3) agree with the objectives initially tossed out by AlanF.
Your illogic is based in false assumptions and a desire to find structure where there is none. In the absence of structure, you imagined one into existence. The fact that your imagination is providing you faulty information as a basis for your posts is your own lookout.

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

dilaceratus

Hillary_step: So what you are saying is that because AlanF is taken so seriously as a poster, he should be more responsible as to how he chooses to speculate on-line? I think I have read you correctly. I could not disagree more. Though I understand your sentiment, I cannot see that it is condusive to a persons intellectual health.
Poor hapless XJW's, who are unable to distinguish right from wrong, and rely on important authority figures to chart their miserable little lives. Most people on this Board have grown up way beyond what you credit them with Dilaceratus. I would not worry about their emotional health, I am sure they will survive without some Messianic figure in Denver to lead them to the promised land.

I do not recall mentioning anyone's emotional or intellectual well-being at all, so that must be something new and irrelevant you have added to your understanding of my post. (Curiously, however, you seem concerned for AlanF's "intellectual health," but feel I should not concern myself with the readers of this message board's "emotional health.")

What I will state more explicitly for those who may have acquired their "basic reading and comprehension skills" rather late in life, is that anyone could post a topic like, "AlanF -- A Racist?" and, short of having some compelling evidence to back up such a claim, would be correctly dismissed as a troll attempting to attach a hateful moniker to an established and respected poster. AlanF can post "Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body" and such a suggestion will not be immediately dismissed, but given credence as "not impossible." Despite the fact that this is only AlanF's speculation, and there is no evidence to support this idea, it is now a runmor that has been widely spread about.

Thirdwitness ought to be reviled as a result of his shoddy arguments and ridiculous claims, not because of the unproved perception that he is a Watchtower drone.