i'm still running win95, and it has been good to me for the past 8 years or so.
unfortunately, it seems that win95 is officially becoming obsolete, especially with browsing the internet.
some websites require ie6 or newer, and win95 can't run it.. so, i'm thinking about getting a new computer, or even a used one that isn't too far behind the times.
I was a staunch Microsoft supporter since the eighties.
Now, especially since the new macs are Intel based, I'm a born again Jobsy.
I got myself a new MacBook Pro and have OS X, XP, and Linux at my fingertip with superb hardware.
Mac OS X is very safe and fast.
If I need software that only exists in the XP world, I can boot windows and use it.
Its not the cheapest, but excellent value for money.
steve
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
auldsoul:
Either way, your answer (though much longer than it needed to be) established that "a day for a year" is NOT a prophetic rule, it is an interpretive method used in SOME prophecies at the sole discretion of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
This is what I was trying to demonstrate in my post: 1759. That you can not arbitrarily state when a day or week is a year, and then a year is a number of days, and the those days are now years, like the thirdwitness is attesting too. That post was using Daniel 8 with the vision of the goat and the ram.
13Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?" 14 He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
The Watchtower interprets this vision with pretend persecution it suffered during world war two. And, took those dates as LITERAL 2300 days. Thirdwitness just doesn't know his JDub history enough to see a connection and their stunning presumptuousness.
steve
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
thirdwitness,
The fact that it takes you pages and pages to try and explain something so simple, and so necessary for the lives of billions of people should say it all. That this is a pile of crap issued from a publishing company unable to back step on fundimental statements of their old enthusiastic fortune tellers. However, I know that you would not be satisfied with that response.
So, here is the PROOF that mommies interpretation is wrong:
The seven times tree prophecy applies ONLY to king Neb. No one else. Daniel tells us so. Not the Watch Tower society, but Daniel. [edited to add]: The 'substance' is Daniel 4: 33 Immediately what had been said about Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled. There.
Proof.
Case closed.
steve
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
thirdwitness:
The 2300 mornings and evenings. Steve's interpretation has nothing to do with the seven times and is irrelevant.
Yep, its is irrelevant, and just as valid as your interpretation.
A question for you, and hope you can answer it correctly.
Do you, thirdwitness, know how the date for the end of the 'gentile times' was calculated by your founding father, Mr Russell. It is an important question because when you know how, you understand the true meaning of the prophecy you teach.
steve
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
Thirdwitness says:
As has been said before, the Bible interprets itself and so we do not have to guess about the meaning of Daniel chapter 4 at all.
However, EVERYTHING you present is assumption and conjecture.
You are making a case the the dream of the tree applies to Israel. In order to make your point you twist scripture. For all JWLurkers here is an example of how the society makes things up for their own purposes. In this case to cover a failed doctrine.
To clear up this confusion, lets read what the bible says:
Dan 4:20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth, 21 with beautiful leaves and abundant fruit, providing food for all, giving shelter to the beasts of the field, and having nesting places in its branches for the birds of the air- 22 you, O king, are that tree! You have become great and strong; your greatness has grown until it reaches the sky, and your dominion extends to distant parts of the earth.
Not Zedekiah. You are a perfect example of how the watch tower society take selective portions of the bible and twists them for your own agenda. For Shame.
steve
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
Also, regarding the 7 times of Neb going nuts, the bible explicitly tells us whether it could have a second meaning or not. Verse 33 says: "Immediately what had been said about Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled."
Case closed.
steve
think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.
why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?
as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.
Using the same apocalyptic nonsense I can let you know, thirdwitness, that you and those you worship are going to have to wait a long time for the fulfillment of your prophecy.
The answer for the 'End of the Time' is clearly given in chapter 8: 13 :
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?" 14 He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.
2300 days = 2,300 years.
So, using your calculations we have 220 years after 1914 for the vision to be fulfilled.
Prove me wrong!
steve
i have found an article in the wt library (about early 1980`s) which says that no diciplinary action would be taken against someone who receives an organ transplant.
my understanding was that they did actually ban the brothers from having a transplant of any sort prior to the 1980`s.
is this the case?
There were a plethora of articles in the seventies saying that transplants were medically bad. Very similar to the distotion of that facts relating to blood transfusions in todays watchtower literatures. Here's a clasic example of the watchtower sudo-science from w75 9/1:
A peculiar factor sometimes noted is a so-called ‘personality transplant.’ That is, the recipient in some cases has seemed to adopt certain personality factors of the person from whom the organ came. One young promiscuous woman who received a kidney from her older, conservative, well-behaved sister, at first seemed very upset. Then she began imitating her sister in much of her conduct. Another patient claimed to receive a changed outlook on life after his kidney transplant. Following a transplant, one mild-tempered man became aggressive like the donor. The problem may be largely or wholly mental. But it is of interest, at least, that the Bible links the kidneys closely with human emotions.
steve
the other day, i was in a local half-price bookstore.
just out of curiosity, i went down the 'religious' isle, and sure enuf, i saw a couple of publications by the witnesses wedged in with the usual other things, bible-related.. i also saw a spanish printed something-or-other... a recent publication (although i don't remember the copyright date).
i was looking at the information, and it said something like.... published by the watchtower bible and trach society and international bible students association ... etc.
RR: The IBSA was dissolved about ten years ago or so. Don't remember the exact date. While there is still an IBSA building in London, that is because it is etched in stone, and I guess the Society hasn't bothered to sand it down and place Watch Tower name on it!
RR, if you check out the financial report I posted for 2005 you'll see the ISBA is alive and kicking.
steve
the other day, i was in a local half-price bookstore.
just out of curiosity, i went down the 'religious' isle, and sure enuf, i saw a couple of publications by the witnesses wedged in with the usual other things, bible-related.. i also saw a spanish printed something-or-other... a recent publication (although i don't remember the copyright date).
i was looking at the information, and it said something like.... published by the watchtower bible and trach society and international bible students association ... etc.
Jim,
The London watchtower branch annuall financial report says this:
The Society has a consistent income base through Gift Aid . In addition, the primary activity is the manufacture and distribution of Bible based religious literature on behalf of International Bible Students Association, the cost of which is passed on .
The Society works closely with International Bible Students Association, which permits Watch Tower Society to use its facilities for the Society's charitable activities and provides accommodation for volunteers. International Bible Students Association makes a monthly service and maintenance charge to the Society for the facilities it uses and for providing accommodation for volunteers connected with the Society's activities. The Society passes to International Bible Students Association the cost incurred in printing and distributing the Bible-based religious literature manufactured and delivered to destinations on its behalf and all other overhead costs.
...
In 2005, the charity made interest-free loans to International Bible Students Association with whom it works closely, in the sum of £3,500,000. This was for the purpose of enabling International Bible Students Association to reduce their indebtedness to their bankers, thereby saving financial costs to the Association. The loan was raised by International Bible Students Association initially to purchase property which is now used by Watch Tower Society .
...
A major activity of the charity continues to be the printing and distribution of Bibles and Bible study aids, primarily for International Bible Students Association. The literature is distributed free of charge by IBSA to congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses and then to the public in general . The Society administers the work of Jehovah's Witnesses in Britain and notes that in the year under review, almost 18,000,000 hours were spent by Jehovah's Witnesses in Britain working in their communities helping people morally and spiritually . The Bible study aids printed by the charity offers practical advice on law-abiding citizenship, targeted workable family values for modern living and advises Christian tolerance in a multi-cultural society. Information on such values has a wide appeal as can be seen for the request for more Bibles and Bible study aids by both Jehovah's Witnesses and members of the public.
During the year, a total of 232,000,000 items were printed on the charity's two rotary presses. The main bulk of these items were the Watchtower and Awake journals which had a total printing of approximately 145,000,000. During the year, we increased the number of languages in which the Watchtower and Awake magazines were printed to twenty-eight. The additional languages are for various countries in Africa.
In October 2005, the charity was able to take occupation of a new facility [purchased and renovated by International Bible Students Association] . This facility houses the shipping and warehousing departments of the charity and has released much needed space in IBSA House for printing and finishing of magazines and brochures. The new MAN Roland Rotary Press has lived up to expectations and along with the computer controlled finishing and distribution lines, have enabled the charity to meet its commitments with regard to the introduction of new languages and increasing orders for the printed publications.
...
All incoming resources are included in the Statement of Financial Activities (SOFA) when the charity is legally entitled to the income and the amount can be quantified with reasonable accuracy. No income is deferred. Donations are from the public, congregations and other connected charities. Income from literature arise from literature sold to International Bible Students Association (IBSA), a connected charity on a cost basis in line with the charity's objects. Entitlement to legacies is the earlier of the charity being notified of an impending distribution or the legacy being received.
...
The trustees confirm that they have not been involved with any transactions of the charity . The Society has close connections with International Bible Students Association which is a registered charity and has similar objects. This charity has the same registered office as that of the Society.
