stevenyc

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Posts by stevenyc

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  8

  JW deaths ONLY due to blood issue? Think again.

  by BabaYaga in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is sort-of a re-post, in my reply to thewanderer's thread, heading: "when you started to arrive on your decision about leaving.

  " it just occurred to me that this might be a good place to have others sharing experiences where the wtbts dictates were not only unloving, but actually deadly.

  for over 15 years i excused the organization and the horribly wrong and sometimes death-dealing advice or decrees of the elders.

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  stevenyc

  As far as the new testament is concerned the only reason to allow yourself to die was blasphemy.

  Taking blood is allowed in Jewish / old testament law only if it preserved your life.

  I don't think I need to write any more.

  steve
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  537

  evolution or creation? lets talk...

  by Sam87 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

  (or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

  hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

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  stevenyc

  dido:

  I`ve noticed that people that believe in evolution are really dogmatic about it. To be quite honest with you i find evolution a complicated subject and don`t understand all the `big` words as i am not a scientist, and prefer layman's terms. I tend to agree with whyizit, if we are supposed to have evolved, why aren`t we or any other species still evolving? Simple question.

  dido, you've asked a very good and honest question. In layman's terms I'll try to explain. I assume that your view is a traditional christian teaching on how life came to be. This view says that we as humans are the product, or result of creation. This means that we, you and me, are the END of a chain of events. That chain being that God (and Jesus) created all plants and animals and then humans. We (our species) were the last of His works. That for millions and millions of years into the future, what we see here today will never change. The evolutionist believes that we are still evolving. That we are not the end of a chain of events. The evolutionist believes that we are at where evolution has brought us so far. That as time goes on, evolution will too. Evolution takes a very long time for complex things to change enough to see that they are evolving. I hope this helps you understand the difference. steve
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  537

  evolution or creation? lets talk...

  by Sam87 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

  (or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

  hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

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  stevenyc

  A couple of points brought out by creationist in the thread typifies the difficulty of discution between the creationist and evolutionist.

  I will try and explain these difficulties by showing three separate points of view.

  Two people, Bob and Tom, are walking together outside. It starts to rain.

  Bob: what creates the rain?

  Tom: the cloud.

  Bob: what is the cloud?

  Tom: the cloud creates rain.

  Imagine if the question was posed to someone who had studied the theory of weather dynamics. Even though the response would have been different, would it make it more or less valid to Bob?

  Here are some factors involved which I have seen cause an impasse:

  - Does the person require evidence, or a test to be performed to satisfy them?

  - Does the person have a vested interest in the answer?

  - Is the person aware of other answers which either add or remove weight to the response?

  This leads me to believe that generally, the main battleground is not at whether creation or evolution can be argued successfully but to what extent rationality and mysticism can coexist.

  For the atheist-evolutionist they cannot. To the atheist-evolutionist, mysticism belongs in the beautiful stories of fairy tale and lore, not in a post renaissance world of today. To the atheist-evolutionist, mysticism is the anathema of logic and rationality.

  To the theist-evolutionist they can. The theist-evolutionist has allowed his mysticism to be resigned to fairy tail, page by page. But, only as each page becomes demystified. The theist-evolutionist will not accept a leap of faith that the universe 'just came about' but will only accept 'GOD just was'. For now...

  The traditional theist-creationist lives in both worlds. The theist-creationist will allow all logic and reason up to the point of where the logic and reason poses a threat to the mystical writings. To the theist-creationist, the interpretations of these writings hold the balance of power.

  Me, I'm an atheist-creationist.

  steve
• 
  69

  Did u want to leave the org bcause u were doing something immoral?

  by Will2Power in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ..and then sought to justify your leaving the organisation/religion by researching websites like this (to salve your conscience, justify continuing in your pleasurable but unscriptural lifestyle), or did you sincerely leave purely because you discovered certain false teachings, scandals, etc, while still living a moral, christian lifestyle?

  be honest now, i mean really honest.

  (this is not meant to offend anyone but viewed like a survey).

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  stevenyc

  The question depends on whos definition of morality you are refering to.

  steve
• 
  537

  evolution or creation? lets talk...

  by Sam87 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

  (or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

  hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

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  stevenyc

  dido, thanks for responding. I understand that you believe God is the creator, but, what do you mean by "GOD"?

  steve
• 
  537

  evolution or creation? lets talk...

  by Sam87 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

  (or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

  hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

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  stevenyc

  A question to creationists:

  Which entity do you believe created all life now living and extict? Please be specific as would be deficult for me to understand the statement "GOD", if that is what you belive, without defining what you mean by "GOD".

  steve
• 
  537

  evolution or creation? lets talk...

  by Sam87 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

  (or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

  hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

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  stevenyc

  whyizit.

  Darwin believed his theory of evolution right to the end. The question of his belief in the existence of God is what creationist confuse, sometimes deliberately. Basically, Darwin was not an atheist.

  The story that you are referring to is from Lady Elizabeth Hope story, appears in an American Baptist newspaper the Watchman Examiner on August 15, 1915. You can read it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Hope#Denial_by_Darwin.27s_children.

  This story was absolutely denied by everyone surrounding Darwin up to the time of his death.

  Denial by Darwin's children
  
  Darwin's family all denied the story and campaigned against it. Darwin's son Francis wrote in a letter on May 28, 1918:
  
  Lady Hope's account of my father's views on religion is quite untrue. I have publicly accused her of falsehood, but have not seen any reply. My father's agnostic point of view is given in my Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. I., pp. 304–317. You are at liberty to publish the above statement. Indeed, I shall be glad if you will do so."
  
  After the story had been revived in 1922, Darwin's daughter Henrietta Litchfield stated in The Christian for February 23, 1922 in an article titled: Charles Darwin’s Death-Bed: Story of Conversion Denied by Mrs. R.B. Litchfield:
  
  I was present at his deathbed, Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. We think the story of his conversion was fabricated in the U.S.A. ... ...The whole story has no foundation whatever."
  
  In 1958 The Autobiography of Charles Darwin was republished edited by Darwin's granddaughter Nora Barlow, which restored various passages edited out by Francis Darwin in the original 1887 edition. These included Darwin's perspective on God, as well as harsh criticisms of Christianity.

  steve
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  537

  evolution or creation? lets talk...

  by Sam87 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

  (or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

  hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

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  stevenyc

  I always found the creation argument of "untapped brain power" quite amusing and ironic.

  Maybe you should as yourself which is more likely: Was this "untapped" availability was part of gods original plan for super-brain, or a useful redundancy for relearning after chronic damage.

  steve
• 
  16

  Looking for quote from WT...please help

  by mavie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was having a discussion with family about leaving the jw's recently.

  we were talking about the us verses them mentality one develops as part of the religion.

  i tried to bolster my case by saying that only jw's will survive armageddon.

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  stevenyc

  Sometimes its easier to direct Jehovah's Witnesses to the official site, so here are a few for you.

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/dg/article_11.htm: God's people are now being trained for everlasting life in the new world. They are learning the spiritual and other skills needed to develop a paradise. We urge you to choose God as Ruler and support the lifesaving work he is having done throughout the earth today. Study the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses, and come to know the God who really cares about you and who will bring an end to suffering. In this way you too can become part of the foundation of the new world. Then you can confidently look forward to gaining God's favor and living forever in that marvelous new world

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/lmn/article_11.htm: Your urgent need now is accurate knowledge. (1 Timothy 2:4; John 17:3) Where can you get this? Can it be found in just any religion? Some people say all religions lead to the same goal, just as all paths on a mountain lead to the summit. How mistaken they are! In order to find the right path, mountaineers use maps, and they hire guides. Likewise, there is only the one religion of truth that will lead to everlasting life, and guidance is needed to find it

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq/article_05.htm7: God's original purpose for the earth will thus succeed. Would you like to share in these future blessings? If so, you need to keep learning about Jehovah and obeying his requirements. Attending meetings at the local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses will help you to do so

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2004/6/1/article_02.htm: If you want to please God, religious affiliation is vital—but not with just any religious group or denomination. You need to base your choice of religion on accurate Bible knowledge, not on unproved dogmas or hearsay. (Proverbs 16:25) Learn the requirements for true religion. Compare them with your own beliefs. Then choose accordingly
  The above article references the follow url...
  
  http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq/article_13.htm: 1. Jesus started one true Christian religion. So today there must be just one body, or group, of true worshipers of Jehovah God.

  http://www.watchtower.org/e/20000215/article_02.htm: May we never be tempted to venture into the danger zone for whatever reason our mind might come up with, since the day we cross the line back into the world could be the day of Jehovah. Take refuge along with Jehovah's people and stay with them.

  And the OFFICAL belief is this:

  They believe that there is only ONE religion. However, the dead will be resurected and judged, and INDIVIDUALS of existing religions MAY survive if God feels that their heart condition warrents it. The distiction is subtle, and has been used resently by Mr Brown.

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/article_08.htm
  Do the Witnesses believe that their religion is the only right one?
  Anyone who is serious about his religion should think that it is the right one. Otherwise, why would he or she be involved in it? Christians are admonished: "Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) A person should make sure that his beliefs can be supported by the Scriptures, for there is only one true faith. Ephesians 4:5 confirms this, mentioning "one Lord, one faith, one baptism." Jesus did not agree with the modern, relaxed view that there are many roads, many religions, all leading to salvation. Instead, he said: "Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it." Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they have found it. Otherwise, they would look for another religion.—Matthew 7:14.

  Do they believe that they are the only ones who will be saved?
  No. Millions that have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before the "great tribulation," and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; 24:21; 25:31.

  steve
• 
  537

  evolution or creation? lets talk...

  by Sam87 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

  (or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

  hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  stevenyc

  Whether evolution or creation is true can be seen as a nonsensical question in itself without further definition. It can be said that all life as we know it was created by evolution.

  If we are to infer that by "creation" we mean "a supernatural power currently beyond our current comprehension or understanding" then, it can also be said that we were created by evolution, if we suggest that the evolutionary process was started by the "creation" of the universe.

  If, however, we are to assume the "supernatural power, currently beyond our current comprehension or understanding" was an intelligent entity living outside the realms of the universe, but created the universe, and then created all life now living and extinct, then there is a difference between creation and evolution.

  Also, to have a reasonable discution we would need to know whether valid arguments can contain statements backed up with only a personal belief that a statement is true. And, if any reference material used, would it have to demonstrate why the argument or statement being made is valid.

  steve