Posts by ithinkisee

95

Starting my story...very long

by Synergy in

[the watchtower, july 15, 1961 issue, page 420: .

[the watchtower, july 1, 1963 issue, page 413: .

[the watchtower, july 15, 1974 issue, page 442: .

ithinkisee

BTTT

So I pretty much come back to JWD every day just to see if you've updated us with the next part of your story ... still working on it?????

-ithinkisee

95

Starting my story...very long

by Synergy in

[the watchtower, july 15, 1961 issue, page 420: .

[the watchtower, july 1, 1963 issue, page 413: .

[the watchtower, july 15, 1974 issue, page 442: .

Starting my story...very long

by Synergy in

[the watchtower, july 15, 1961 issue, page 420: .

[the watchtower, july 1, 1963 issue, page 413: .

[the watchtower, july 15, 1974 issue, page 442: .

ithinkisee

Holy crap. Thank you for that. I will be thinking about your story all day. Your writing style is emotional yet succinct. I love it and am sorry for all you had to endure.

I saw history repeating itself and I hated it. I remembered all the times growing up of my dad beating me to make an example out of me and I was such an unhappy child. I swore I’d never be a parent like that. Here I was with a baby girl who’s father was reaching out for more congregational privileges and beating our child to get their blessing.

A couple years ago my oldest daughter was in school and she became very nervous and agitated about having to go to school on holidays. It really bothered her that she had to be so different - when at that age all you wanna do is fit in. Those feelings that I had as a kid in school came flooding back to me as well. It angered me that the cycle was repeating again.

That one got to me. I remember thinking that as well. That I had all these grown up responsibilities that I was sort of shuffled into doing. Even though I loved them all I resented it. I even ended up flying some 3000 miles to get some "therapy" - from another JW no less.

-ithinkisee

21

When Christians experience the "power of the Christ" ...

by ithinkisee in

is this a feeling unique to christians?.

because i felt tremendously at peace when i came to terms with the facts about (what i feel is) the lack of authenticity of the bible and it's status as an inspired book - almost as if the universe was telling me, "just let go.

things are out of your control.

ithinkisee

Wow, I popped in quickly to BTTT this thread thinking no one would respond.

I don't have time to comment now, but I will tonight.

THanks,

-ithinkisee

39

Meditation, letting the demons in

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i remember asking an elder once, "what do you think about meditation?

" he responded that we should not relax and open our minds, as opening our minds can let demons in.

i thought that seemed like a odd response, and looked it up in the watchtower, and sure enough he gave the societies views on meditation.

ithinkisee

I am way late on this one but I just saw Josh's comments. He is totally right about just being aware all the time. He is further along than me. While a daily meditation regimen is rather mechanical for me (and becoming less and less daily) it is necessary - though sometimes awkward.

Kinda like being a JW all your life and then starting to celebrate holidays. Sometimes it can be forced and awkward - but after awhile it just becomes an opportunity for wonderful memories and is as familiar and a part of life as anything.

The last thing I ever want to do is meditate to be more regimented .... blech.

-ithinkisee

21

When Christians experience the "power of the Christ" ...

by ithinkisee in

is this a feeling unique to christians?.

because i felt tremendously at peace when i came to terms with the facts about (what i feel is) the lack of authenticity of the bible and it's status as an inspired book - almost as if the universe was telling me, "just let go.

things are out of your control.

ithinkisee

Is this a feeling unique to Christians?

Because I felt tremendously at peace when I came to terms with the facts about (what I feel is) the lack of authenticity of the bible and it's status as an inspired book - almost as if the universe was telling me, "Just let go. Things are out of your control. You can fight against the universe or you can go with it and do great things." When I sit and meditate each morning, I feel even closer to that general feeling of peace and acceptance of what is and is not in my power to accomplish. When I stop meditating - which I missed a couple weeks about a week ago and then started up again - I start to lose that feeling of peace and acceptance and awareness of my power.

And I'm not joking when I say that I think in many ways my non-Christian outlook is likely very similar to what Christians feel:
When George W Bush says that praying every day gives him a sense of inner peace, I believe him (for once). I have heard other Christians say that as well - that when they finally realized everything in this world is out of their control and they finally just looked up to the sky and prayed to Jesus to take over and give them strength. That moment when they "let go" is the time that they feel that peace (or electricity for some) and the "power of Christ" come over them and they felt they could take on ANYTHING. And, of course, when you couple that with a Judeo-Christian upbringing they turn to what they instinctively believe to be the deity to worship - in their case, Jesus Christ.

So Christians associate it with a person (that I feel) was made into God. Whereas I associate it with the universe - a universal power that isn't deeply obsessed with atonement, virginal attributes, and spilling blood to make up for other spilled blood..

Many non-JW Christians - when faced with the crisis that eventually "revealed the Christ" to them, would not have come to an "accurate knowledge of Jesus" if they lived in Asia, or the Middle East, or many other places in the world. A Muslim gives credit to Allah when he beats alcoholism. A JW gives credit to Jehovah. And a Christian gives credit to Jesus Christ. Yet they all beat alcoholism. Whose god truly helped them and who just got some inner strength and determination and beat alcoholism? This is what I don't understand and no christian has ever even attempted to explain it. Instead they immediately go to "what the bible says", which is circular reasoning on a grand scale.

Regardless, I don't really mind that a Christian is - a Christian. I know and love many Christians deeply. I recognize this IS a personal choice. (I';m saying that because that is the next argument i hear after the rest are exhausted) But I do have a problem when these Christian parents tell their kids that unless they accept Jesus as their lord and savior they will burn in hell. To put that sort of fear into a child about a concept that is completely unproven, and in fact most evidence points to the contrary - really angers me. And don't tell me that is not how Christian children are raised, because I have heard it with my own ears.

How does a Christian explain when a Buddhist has this same feeling? Or a member of any other religion?

-ithinkisee

7

How were you saved from christianity and belief

by Satanus in

jw
friends

post you testimony.

this is sort of a tongue in cheek juxtaposition to christians' being saved from whatever to whatever.

so anyways, on to my subject, how were you brought to atheism/nonbelief?

ithinkisee

Actually, I felt tremendously at peace when I came to terms with the facts about (what I feel is) the lack of authenticity of the bible and it's canonicity - almost as if the universe was telling me, "Just let go. Things are out of your control. You can fight against the universe or you can go with it." When I sit and meditate each morning, I feel even closer to that general feeling of peace and acceptance of what is and is not in my power to accomplish. WHen I stop meditating - which I missed a couple weeks about a week ago - I start to lose that feeling of peace and acceptance.

And I'm not joking when I say that I think in many ways my non-Christian outlook is likely very similar to what Christians feel:

When George W Bush says that praying every day gives him a sense of inner peace, I believe him (for once). I have heard other Christians say that as well - that when they finally realized everything in this world is out of their control and they finally just looked up to the sky and prayed to Jesus to take over and give them strength. That moment when they "let go" is the time that they feel that peace and the "power of Christ" come over them and they felt they could take on ANYTHING. And, of course, when you couple that with a Judeo-Christian upbringing they turn to what they instinctively believe to be the deity to worship - in their case, Jesus Christ. Christians associate it with a person (that I feel) was made into God. Whereas I associate it with the universe - a universal power that isn't deeply obsessed with atonement, virginal attributes, and spilling blood to make up for other spilled blood..

Many non-JW Christians - when faced with the crisis that eventually "revealed the Christ" to them, would not have come to an "accurate knowledge of Jesus" if they lived in Asia, or the Middle East, or many other places in the world. A Muslim gives credit to Allah when he beats alcoholism. A JW gives credit to Jehovah. And a Christian gives credit to Jesus Christ. Yet they all beat alcoholism. Whose god truly helped them and who just got some inner strength and determination and beat alcoholism? This is what I don't understand and no christian has ever even attempted to explain it. Instead they immediately go to "what the bible says", which is circular reasoning on a grand scale.

Regardless, I don't really mind that a Christian is - a Christian. It IS a personal choice. (I';m saying that because that is the next argument i hear after the rest are exhausted) But I do have a problem when these Christian parents tell their kids that unless they accept Jesus as their lord and savior they will burn in hell. To put that sort of fear into a child about a concept that is completely unproven, and in fact most evidence points to the contrary - really angers me. And don't tell me that is not how CHristian children are raised, because I have heard it with my own ears.

Does any of this make sense? Am I just rambling incoherently?

-ithinkisee

21

Did Prince Just Say Goodbye to the Jehovah's Witnesses?

by ithinkisee in

jw
friends

http://allied.blogspot.com/2007/02/prince-says-goodbye-to-jehovahs.html.

any music fan who watched the super bowl last night could rightly walk into work this morning and say, "did you see the bears and colts play football during prince's concert?".

(reprinted from the link above).

ithinkisee

What do you think?

http://allied.blogspot.com/2007/02/prince-says-goodbye-to-jehovahs.html

Any music fan who watched the Super Bowl last night could rightly walk into work this morning and say, "Did you see the bears and colts play football during Prince's Concert?"

(Reprinted from the link above)

It was that good. And, at other levels, it was interesting too.

For any artist familiar with the restrictive, cultish tactics of the jehovah's witnesses, watching the halftime show at this year's Super Bowl represented a lot more than catching a great live concert by Prince. The entire performance was riddled with symbolism that could only leave current and former JWs doing double take after double take, wondering what Prince was trying to 'say'.

I think Prince's merging of All Along the Watchtower with Foo Figher's The Best of You, followed up by Purple Rain, performed while doning his classic symbol, his signature guitar magnified as it rippled against the night sky, full and phallic, larger than life against a ghostly white backdrop, was Prince's way of saying goodbye to the Organization, was Prince's way of saying, "you're not messin with me anymore."

Maybe I'm projectiong. Maybe not.

It's not a simple thing -- the passionate belief and seeking of Truth, the sacrifice of self, the heart vs the mind, all targeted by well-honed thought control vs the single thread of hope for what being human means: Freedom of thought. You kind of have to have been there to grok it.

What I think? That Artist giving that performance at that event, performing those songs that way, wearing that symbol on that stage -- I think he just said goodbye to the Watchtower.

And if he didn't, and they don't disfellowship him for that display, well--it only further demonstrates the hypocrisy of the JWs that makes for madness in those who've ever been shamed at a Kingdom Hall.

(Video Transcription)
Prince's Watchtower Medley

All along the watchtower
princes kept a view
while the women came and wept
their foot servants too
outside in the cold distance
a wild cat did growl
two riders were approaching
and the wind began to howl

I ain't going on to someone new
I needed somewhere to hang my head
Without your noose
You gave me something that I didn't have
But had no use

I was too weak to give in
Too strong to lose

My heart is under arrest again
But I'll break loose
My head is giving me life or death
I Will Choose

I swear I'd never give in
'cause I refuse.

is someone getting the best (the best the best the best) of you?
is someone getting the best (the best the best the best) of you?

Is someone taking your faith?
Its real, the pain you feel
you must confess.

Is someone getting the best (the best the best the best) of you?
[solo]
...the best the best the best of you?

Is someone getting the best (the best the best the best) of you?
Is someone getting the best (the best the best the best) of you?

I got another confession
my friend,
I ain't no fool.
http://allied.blogspot.com/2007/02/prince-says-goodbye-to-jehovahs.html

35

My Favorite WT Flip Flops

by ithinkisee in

fornication.

not fornication (implied).

fornication .

ithinkisee

{FullofDoubtNow}

Do you have the references for that?

-ithinkisee

35

My Favorite WT Flip Flops

by ithinkisee in

fornication.

not fornication (implied).

fornication .

ithinkisee

If a woman does not scream when she is raped, is this an act of fornication and therefore a sin?

FORNICATIONWT 1/15/64 p.63;
WT 1/15/64 p.64;
WT 6/1/68 p.347

NOT FORNICATION (implied)1969, 1971 Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 1371+, 601

FORNICATION Awake! 3/8/74 p.14

NOT FORNICATION (implied) Awake! 7/8/80 p.5,6

FORNICATIONWT 10/15/80 p.7

NOT FORNICATIONWT 3/15/83 p.30

FORNICATIONAwake! 2/22/84 p.2
Awake! 2/22/84 p.25

NOT FORNICATIONAwake! 6/8/84 p.28

FORNICATIONAwake! 5/22/86 p.23

NOT FORNICATION (?) (not sure really … a vague response) Awake! 9/22/86 p.28

NOT FORNICATIONAwake! 3/8/93 p.5

Are the increases in numbers of Jehovah’s Witnesses evidence that they have God’s divine favor and blessing?

NO -
Examining the Scriptures Daily, May 19th, 2002Of course, the number of those associated with Jehovah's Witnesses is not a criterion for determining if they enjoy divine favor.
YES -
Watchtower July 1, 2002, p.13, paragraph 17-19Now is the time for Jehovah to express mercy to his anointed servants and their other sheep companions. The evidence that this is so is the extraordinary increase with which he has blessed them…
18. Each year, hundreds of thousands of additional "foreigners" associate with Jehovah's organisation, and the way will remain open for many more to follow them. Jehovah says to Zion: "Your gates will actually be kept open constantly; they will not be closed even by day or by night, in order to bring to you the resources of the nations, and their kings will be taking the lead" (Isaiah 60:11) Some opposers try to close those 'gates,' but we know that they cannot succeed. Jehovah himself has said that one way or another, the gates will stay open. The increase will continue.
19. There are still other ways that Jehovah has blessed his people, making them beautiful in these last days.

Who Is Speaking At Rev 22:12,13?
“Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Watchtower 1955 July 1 p.387 It’s Jesus.

Watchtower 1967 November 15 p.680 It’s Jehovah

Awake! 1978 August 22 p.28 It’s Jehovah

Watchtower 1978 October 1 p.15 It’s Jesus.

Watchtower 1988 June 15 p.20 It’s Jehovah

Revelation Climax (1988) (switchup in the same book) First, it’s Jehovah (p.316)
Then it’s Jesus. (p.319)

Watchtower 1999 Dec 1 p.19 (switchup in the same article) First it’s Jesus. (paragraph 18)
Then it’s Jehovah (paragrah 19)

Who are the superior authorites spoken of at Romans 13:1?

1886 - Earthly governments(Divine Plan of the Ages, 1886, p.266)
1889 - Earthly governments(Time Is At Hand, 1889, p.81) 1932-1963: God and Christ(Vindication, Vol. 3, 1932, p.13 and The Truth Shall Make You Free, 1943, p.312)
1952 - God and Christ(Let God Be True, 1952, p.248)
1959 - God and Christ(Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, p.91)
1963 - Earthly political governments(WT 1/1/63 p.31) 1975 - Earthly political governments(1975 Yearbook, p.238)
1980 - Earthly political governments (WT 5/15/80 p.4)

Society’s View of Organ Transplants
Conscience matter
The Watchtower 08/01/1961 p. 480 The question of placing one's body or parts of one's body at the disposal of men of science or doctors at one's death for purposes of scientific experimentation or replacement in others is frowned upon by certain religious bodies. However, it does not seem that any Scriptural principle or law is involved. It therefore is something that each individual must decide for himself.

Prohibited. It is cannibalism. Watchtower, 11/15/1967, pp.702-4 Organ transplants are cannibalism, hence inappropriate for Christians.

Prohibited. It is cannibalism. Awake!, 6/19/1968, p.21 " Jehovah's Witnesses consider all organ transplants to be cannibalism, hence unacceptable".

Notice: Blood is prohibited in the quote above because blood is an organ and organ transplants are cannibalism. Now read the next quote below:Prohibited. It is cannibalism.
Jehovah's Witnesses and the Question of Blood, p.41 (1977) Consequently, whether having religious objections to blood transfusions or not, many a person might decline blood simply because it is essentially an organ transplant that at best is only partially compatible with his own blood.–

Allowed.Watchtower, 3/15/1980, p.31 " Organ transplants are not necessarily cannibalistic".

Woman dies from refusing bone marrow transplant in 1978 – only two years before Society’s reversal on organ transplants:
Copyright 1978 NEW YORK TIMES November 26, 1978, Sunday
SECTION: Page 47, Column 4 LENGTH: 74 words
JOURNAL-CODE: NYT ABSTRACT: Thirteen-year-old Lori Mason of Natick (Mass) dies on same day special court session was scheduled to ensure that her rights were being fully presented after Boston judge upheld her decision to decline bone marrow transplant from her sister. Had refused transplant on religious grounds as member of Jehovah's Witnesses and feared possibilty of endangering her sister's health. Had suffered from disease called Fanconi's aplastic anemia (S).

Reasoning From The Scriptures – False Prophets p136 par4 Matters on which corrections of viewpoint have been needed have been relatively minor when compared with the vital Bible truths that they have discerned and publicized.

(needless death is relatively minor??)