The "liberal" types will give them a voice, but any liberal types who give them more than a passing glance will quickly identify them as a cult and not join them.
I don't see this as a great marketing piece. I see it more as a way for existing JWs to solidify their faith and tell themselves they are "really just like everyone else" and nothing more.
-ithinkisee
ithinkisee
JoinedPosts by ithinkisee
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8
I saw "knocking"last night--my review
by Junction-Guy inwell thanks to one of the members here at jwd, i was sent a copy of knocking.
i watched it last night with the exception of a small segment that i will finish out today.. .
the actual film itself was a puff piece meant to instill sympathy, and it did that well.
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ithinkisee
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Man's search for meaning
by ithinkisee ina book that i cannot recommend enough.
one of the more balanced views of life from someone who was stripped down to his very existence as a prisoner in the nazi concentration camps.
the book is short - half the book is dedicated to covering his actual experience in the camps.
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ithinkisee
A book that I cannot recommend enough. One of the more balanced views of life from someone who was stripped down to his very existence as a prisoner in the Nazi concentration camps.
The book is short - half the book is dedicated to covering his actual experience in the camps. The other half is a clinical analysis of his life there. (He was a psychotherapist so he analyzes what caused people’s reactions there.)
There are lessons of resiliency that inspired me. There are lessons in accepting that certain things are out of our control, but that we need to be ready to take action when things ARE in our control.
What was interesting to me is how the prisoners actually got to a point where they liked the concentration camps. They got used to it. They started developing little cliques and got used to the “routine”.
In fact, the author notes that some prisoners resented being freed because now they had choices and opportunity and had to face up to making decisions on their own instead of deferring to the authority.
The author went on to note how certain types of people actually prefer giving up their freedom in order to have life spelled out for them. They liked the predictability and ultimate control being handed over to someone else - even if that someone else took advantage and abused them. Sort of a WWII version of “The Matrix” movie where that guy Cipher wanted to be put back into the Matrix because he couldn’t handle the real world.
I also learned that many things people attributed to “God” helping them in the concentration camps was nothing more than sheer luck or coincidence. The same things that happened to people in the camps that happened to the members of one religion were the EXACT SAME THINGS that happened to people in every other religion in those camps. (i.e. “If it’s unexplainable, then it must be the hand of God!”)
In the camps, there were people in many different religions that prayed for food - and it miraculously showed up via a friendly guard or some other coincidence. All religions affected by Nazis have the same “ooh-aaah” stories that invoke their members to say, “Wow, God must have really been with them!”
In short, a great book that isn’t a thinly disguised sales pitch for any particular religious group.
-ithinkisee -
33
Do You Miss Not Being With Your JW Family & Friends?
by minimus inpersonally, i keep very little contact with any of my witness family except my mom.
i don't miss the conditional friends or family, really.
but i do know that many here are devastated by their being abandoned.
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ithinkisee
It was hard at first. The urge to try and help people you thought were your friends is hard to quell. But this weekend we had some JW family visiting and between their JW-related problems and all that drama it immediately stressed me out to the point that I felt like I was a JW again. I was angry and stressed and guarded and I realized it is not in the best interests of me or my wife and kids to stay so closely in touch with them. Not that I would shun them back (in the strongest sense anyways) but I am not going to seek them out anymore. It's not worth mental anguish - at all.
I feel like the friends I have made over the last two years are much more mutually beneficial than any of the friends I had for most of my life as a JW. Not that it still doesn't hurt from time to time, but in the overall picture my JW friends and family are less and less important.
And from what I can tell by the comments of others on the board they will continue to become less important.
-ithinkisee -
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The Governing Body must stop this wickedness & reproach NOW
by yaddayadda inthe watchtower society said the following as part of their media statement concerning the recent multi-million dollar settlement of 16 child abuse court claims: .
and we will continue to do our utmost to protect children from this horrible crime and sin.
how utterly abysmal is the society's failure to follow their own advice.
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ithinkisee
Since the split of the Society in the 90's into two groups, the GB has less power than ever before. They now have to ask their lawyers for permission to publish certain articles and they must ask accountants for money. They are slowly becoming a figurehead to the real people in charge - accountants and lawyers.
The Society is slowly becoming more and more faceless. Fred Franz was the last real face of the Society. Since then there have been a string of "presidents" but they are not touted like messiahs like WT Presidents in the past have been.
And like all cults the Society is making their leadership more and more ambiguous and hard to figure out.
Like most cults, they now have hundreds of registered businesses worldwide and their money trails are kept as secret as possible.
I am with the previous poster who said they have made it so that reform is impossible.
-ithinkisee -
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You Never Did Enough As A Witness!
by minimus inone thing that i will never miss is how you were made to feel inferior----that nothing you did was ever really good enough to satisfy the organization and of course by extension, jehovah god.
i know of sooooooo many witnesses that are truly depressed because they can never seem to satisfy god or the elders.. people even start getting mysterious illnesses and believe the "demons" are always trying to get at them.
the mentality is that "everyone hates us because we're jehovah's witnesses".
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ithinkisee
I remember the first time as a kid I comprehended that I could never do enough. A Circuit Overseer was giving a talk and said,
"Sunday is meeting, and since you're dressed up you might as well do some field service after the meeting."
"Monday you should spend an hour or so in the evening preparing for the book study on Tuesday."
"Tuesday is book study."
"Wednesday should be time for your family study, personal study, or preparation for all three. Or perhaps preparation for a part on the school if you have one."
"Thursday is Service Meeting and TMS."
"Friday you should be preparing for Saturday field service."
Saturday is field service. And there are always things that can be done around the hall."
"The bottom line is brothers - if we are ever feeling 'comfortable' in Jehovah's service we probably aren't doing enough." -
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growing JW numbers = Jah's approval? i don't think so.
by ?me? ini was just thinking about how in the rev.
book study some of the brothers and sisters were "astounded" and "impressed" with the growth of the wts and how the witnesses went from nothing in 1900 to 6 million now.
so i decided to take a look around the net at the numbers of other religious groups, and you know what?
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ithinkisee
Heh-heh ... Starbucks doesn't call you Satanic when you decide to quit.
-ithinkisee -
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growing JW numbers = Jah's approval? i don't think so.
by ?me? ini was just thinking about how in the rev.
book study some of the brothers and sisters were "astounded" and "impressed" with the growth of the wts and how the witnesses went from nothing in 1900 to 6 million now.
so i decided to take a look around the net at the numbers of other religious groups, and you know what?
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ithinkisee
Even JWs aren't sure about whether growing numbers mean Jehovah's Approval:
Are the increases in numbers of Jehovah’s Witnesses evidence that they have God’s divine favor and blessing?
NO! -
Examining the Scriptures Daily, May 19th, 2002
Of course, the number of those associated with Jehovah's Witnesses is not a criterion for determining if they enjoy divine favor.
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Watchtower July 1, 2002, p.13, paragraph 17-19
Now is the time for Jehovah to express mercy to his anointed servants and their other sheep companions. The evidence that this is so is the extraordinary increase with which he has blessed them…
18. Each year, hundreds of thousands of additional "foreigners" associate with Jehovah's organisation, and the way will remain open for many more to follow them. Jehovah says to Zion: "Your gates will actually be kept open constantly; they will not be closed even by day or by night, in order to bring to you the resources of the nations, and their kings will be taking the lead" (Isaiah 60:11) Some opposers try to close those 'gates,' but we know that they cannot succeed. Jehovah himself has said that one way or another, the gates will stay open. The increase will continue.
19. There are still other ways that Jehovah has blessed his people, making them beautiful in these last days.
JW Flip Flops here. -
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The world IS getting worse!!
by themonster123 ini'm telling you- i honestly think people are getting more immoral!!
i saw something on the news last night where some bicycler got hit in the middle of the road in the middle of a huge intersection and people were slowing down to go around him.
that was at some urban centre in tel aviv, israel.
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ithinkisee
::::WHere's Leave it to Beaver? I love Lucy?
Those shows were not "reality" even when they were originally aired. Married people did not sleep in separate twin beds, and fathers were not the caring, always supportive people that Ward Cleaver was. In fact it was often quite the opposite - especially with the horrors that fathers and sons brought back with them from the wars in the 40's and 50's. There was rampant dysfunction, alcoholism and general weirdness going on. But at the time Hollywood felt it had the obligation to present some unrealistic "ideal".
Ultimately what that resulted in was tons of kids ending up disillusioned and depressed because their families didn't live up to the ideals presented on TV. In fact I remember Roseann Barr, when her show was popular, being interviewed and saying how depressed and sad she would be as a kid watching LEave It To Beaver and wondering why her family and the families of her friends were all NOTHING like what was presented on TV.
I prefer the brutal honesty of today. It's just my opinion though.
As Carl Sagan once said, "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-ithinkisee -
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For those who've settled on 'no contact' with their JW families . . .
by Madame Quixote infor whatever reason.
do you question it sometimes and think you should try to "reach out" to them again?
i was this morning and then came across the thread above and was reminded why i need to stay away.. but, still, i read threads of people who have managed somehow, despite being d'f'ed or faded or d'aed and think i might try to be more understanding, supportive, reach out or something.. despite all the problems growing up in a fairly dysfunctional family, i still feel a deep attachment to them and hope against hope that they might come to their senses (if they ever had any to begin with) and get help and leave the cult of jehobo; and we might reconcile,etc., etc., blah blah blah dream dream dream.. i deeply wish for them all freedom and happiness and healing and feel so helpless to free them of their bonds and yet see so much possibility for it, if only they could be reached somehow.
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ithinkisee
Not worth it ... here's an example when I went back to my hometown for a visit with my non-JW dad:
One of my sisters lives near my dad and is a hardcore damaged JW and has nothing to do with my dad.
I figured if I didn't call they would accuse me of not even calling when I was in town. So I called [my JW sister] and left a message, and she finally called me back after a couple of hours. I was driving, but I pulled over on the side of the road to talk to her.After some very brief (like 30 seconds) idle chit-chat, she finally says, "I don't know what to make of your phone call."
Me: "What do you mean?"
Her: "Well, are you up here for Christmas?"
Me: "We're up here to visit Dad."
Her: "For Christmas?"
Me: "Well, we will be here DURING Christmas, yes."
(Note: I knew what she was getting at and she wasn't rattling me. I was trying to let her work out her logic to me.)
She says, "Well, I saw the pictures of the girl's Easter Egg hunt so I know you are doing pagan holidays. You are an apostate and have turned your back on the true God you were raised with. I love you, but you have let Satan into your heart."
Me (after snickering - which I didn't mean to do): "[Sis], I know we have differences but I was hoping that natural affection for your family would take over and we could put our differences aside and we could get along for the sake of the kids."
Her: "If you would like to meet me somewhere with the kids I can take them and they can all play together, but I can't be around you because you are dangerous."
Me: "No, it's a package deal. It's either me and the kids, or it's none of us."
Her: "I figured you would say that and that is too bad, because I know the kids would really like to play together. The boys heard the phone message and know their cousins are in town. But since you have turned your back on Jehovah, I cannot have anything to do with you. You are dangerous."
Me: "I'm dangerous? The whole reason I left [our town] quietly is so that family members would not accuse me of trying to destroy their faith. Now, despite that, you are STILL calling me dangerous?"
Her: "Yes, you were raised with the Truth.You were raised to love the true God Jehovah and you dedicated your life to him. But you have basically turned your back on him and because of that, cannot have you in my house. You have completely hurt our entire family by your actions because we love you so much."
Me: "[Sis], what am I supposed to do if I found 100% irrefutable proof that the religion I was raised in is not what it claims to be? Am I supposed to just stick it out because I dedicated myself to it?"
(Note: This is the logic they use to get people from other religions to leave a religion and join the JWs. But apparently that logic ceases to exist if applied to themselves.)
Her (after a pause and some slight stammering): "Well ... yes ... I guess you do. You made a dedication to Jehovah and you have turned your back on him and are now doing pagan things. I love you but I can't associate with you."
Me: "Well, that's unfortunate, but you treated [my wife and kids and me] all like crap when we were supposedly going to meetings and doing everything we were supposed to. So for me it's not as big a loss I guess, but I was hoping the kids could at least hang out together for awhile."
Her: (After a pause) "I know. I know I have problems with cutting people off emotionally. But I do love you - I know I do cut people off emotionally and it is something I am working on. Me even calling you back is showing how much I love you and I was praying that you would have a change of heart. I know I do cut people off emotionally though."
Me: "I know you do too. But being a witness requires that you cut people off emotionally. It's called having no natural affection."
Her: "I do have natural affection. But I cannot be around someone who has turned their back on Jehovah. I need to protect my faith."
Me: "Look, I just wanted to come see your new house and "
Her: "I want you to come see our house too, but the scriptures say that someone that leaves the truth should not even be having a meal with such a person."
Me: "That is not what the scripture says, it says do not eat with any fornicators. I have not fornicated with anyone!"
Her: "That's what it says. Not even a meal."
Me: "Yeah, for fornicators. But I haven't fornicated with anyone."
Her: "You are celebrating pagan holidays so that is fornicating with false religion."
(Note: This is a typical method of almost seamlessly adding to scripture to make it say something it really didn't.)
Her: "With the poor choices you have made over the past year, it has really caused me to re-examine my faith and to really look at what I believe. I have looked at tons of secular books as well as the bible and it has done nothing but reaffirm my faith."
(Note: She didn't even hint at what she looked up - which I have found to be typical. No one ever is willing to tell me.)
Me: "You didn't look hard enough."
Her: "I did look hard enough and I am completely satisfied. I looked at secular books and I looked at the bible and where they differed I go with the bible because the bible is inspired of god."
Me: "So do I. I go with the bible on those differences too."
Her: "Whoa, no, don't even start with me [Ithinkisee]. I'm not gonna have these kinds of apostate conversations with you."
Me: "Like I said, I was just hoping that natural affection for your family would take over and we could just enjoy each other's company as brother and sister and the cousins could all hang out together."
Her: "Jesus said that the truth would divide families."
(Note: I don't recall Jesus saying it would be a bragging point that a religion would be proud of.)
Me: "Every religion uses that line on their members to keep them in! If you go to an ex-Mormon website you will find the exact same lines from Mormons to keep their members in line."
Her: "I don't visit those kinds of sites. Visiting sites like that is dangerous to your faith but apparently you are willing to visit them."
Me: "I said ex-MORMON websites. Not ex-JW websites."
Her: "I know. I said I don't visit those sites."
Me: "An ex-Mormon site? You wouldn't visit an ex-Mormon site?"
Her: "No, because it is dangerous to my faith. I am not going to visit any site that could be a detriment to my faith."
Me: (Pretty much speechless at what I had just heard) "[Sis] , I wish I was recording this so you could hear how ridiculous you sound."
Her: "Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. But you are an apostate [Ithinkisee]. I love you, but you are an apostate and Satan has got a hold of you."
Me: "Well, I'll be sure and tell my kids you said that about their dad."
Her: "I'm sure you will. But remember that the girls are always welcome here because they never dedicated their lives to Jehovah like you did. That is why I can't see you."
(Note: My dad is not "dedicated" to Jehovah, but she'll have nothing to do with him either.)
Me: "And when we head up to Grandma and Grandpa's I'll make sure to tell them that you said I am diabolical and Satanic."
(Our grandparents are not JWs and do not like JWs at all, but have kept their mouths shut for decades just so they can see their grandkids.)
Her: "Yeah, I bet you'll just love going up there and telling them all this."
Me: "I'm not the one making the accusations. I am just speaking the truth."
Her: (After a bit of a pause, her voice shaking) "I ... love ... Grandma and Grandpa SO MUCH and I always have."
Me: "So do I!"
Her: (Her voice turns contemptuous) "YOU DO NOT! You and [my other JW sister] BOTH say that you love them but you don't love them like I love them! You and [my other JW sister] pretty much have NOTHING to do with them and I do stuff with them all the time. You are just using them now to divide the family."
(Note: But remember, she said the truth divides families. I am only speaking the truth. Also, never mind the fact that she lives an hour away and me and my other sister lived 3700 miles away in the complete opposite corner of the U.S. - It has always been hard to visit being that far away.)
Her: ".. and you are lazy! You are just lazy! You couldn't cut it and you didn't want to do all that Jehovah required of you. Requirements that you DEDICATED YOUR LIFE TO! You need to HUMBLE YOURSELF and come back to Jehovah before it's too late!"
(Note: It's lazy to walk away from all you have ever known and start over completely from scratch? That is easy? That is taking the lazy way out?)
Me: "I need to humble myself? I'm not the one that is saying I have absolute truth and all the answers. It is neither faithful, nor discreet, or humble to say that you have ALL THE ANSWERS. That is not humility. That is arrogance. Not even the supposedly evil Christendom has the arrogance to proclaim that. They do not say, 'You have to be a member of our church or you will die!'"
Her: "Of course not, that's because in the churches people just like to have their ears tickled. They don't want to have to do anything."
Me: "[Sis], you are just speaking in buzzwords and lines lifted directly from the Watchtower. None of this sounds like it is coming from your heart."
Her: "Well I believe it with all my heart, so if it sounds like they are just lines that is because those things are in my heart."
[there was more, but I don't remember it all at the moment]
Her: "This conversation has probably already gone on longer than it should have. I love you and I love your girls, and they are always welcome here, but you are not."
Me: "Like I said, I was hoping natural affection for your family would take over. But apparently it won't."
[Some sort of awkward goodbyes and final digs at each other and we hung up.]
Fun stuff.
-ithinkisee -
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JWs, Higher Education and Misrepresentation by Barb Anderson
by Dogpatch injehovahs witnesses, higher education and misrepresentation.
footnotes and appendices and full article at:.
http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/education_anderson.htm.
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ithinkisee
Great article. Just so everyone knows you will have to click thru on the link at the top of Dogpatch's post to see the actual misquotes ....
(It's worth clicking through)
-ithinkisee