Posts by Check_Your

24

Hello :-)

by LovelyStar in

jw
friends

so,... i'm new here...how does this site work?

can anyone give me some hints?

your sis,.

Check_Your_Premises

Yes, tell us about your congregation!

ut up - shay about the ostate - apay milieu we inhabit

CYP

23

Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together.

by xjwms in

jw
friends

.

next week my wife and i are going to see, .. and visit, .. her aunt and uncle who are regular pioneers.. being regular pioneers they are, i just know it, .. get into it with me.. what do i say if they pull this scrip on me, ....... of not forsakeing the gathering together bit????.

so far i am preparing myself with all kinds of info, .. if it comes up.

Check_Your_Premises

Why don't you look up the word, "forsake".

Basically it means give up or reject entirely... not exactly a 5 meeting a week mandate is it. It isn't exactly a loud proclomation that salvation comes through affiliation with a group of imperfect men.

Especially when compared to the rest of the NT that repeats over and over again that salvation is through faith in Christ plus nothing! Maybe rent the Gospel of John. It is a verse by verse rendering. Ask them where in this movie you see any emphasis placed on salvation through an organization. Ask them to count how many times Jesus says, "come to me".

Then contrast that to a meeting. All emphasis is on regular meeting attendance, regular field service, and study of the wt.

The Bible makes it clear that Christianity is about Jesus, not about the wt.

CYP

31

"WHERE ELSE WOULD WE GO?"

by bonnzo in

jw
friends

i have a rather lengthy question/statement, so please bear with me.

i would like to apologize in advance if i offend anyone with this post.

i dont mean to judge anyone here.

Check_Your_Premises

Bonnzo,

Those are great questions. I probably don't have real good answers for you right now, since I just haven't had time to form MY OWN OPINION on how to apply those principles in my everyday life.

The important and refreshing thing is that you are willing to honor truth wherever you find it. Furthermore you are humble and teacheable. These are all elements of "good faith".

I find the question of "where else can we go" to be an interesting one (aside from the fact that it is hardly a ringing endorsement). What it implies is that the essential doctrines regarding the nature of Christ, the Holy Spirit, the human soul, and eternal punishment are sound. So even if there are other problems, "we know this stuff is true, and nobody is as prolific as the jw in diseminating these truths, we must have Divine direction". (apparantly the JW's prolific dissemination is important because actually the Christadelphians and various Armstrong denominations have identical views on these "essential truths") So I have some questions for you. These are rhetorical, I don't expect you to explain yourself to me. I would like to hear what you think of the questions though... if you feel like it.

How did you arrive at your conclusion that these "essential" teachings are correct? Did you seek out other evidence and lines of reasoning BESIDES those offered by the wt?

Are you sure there aren't things that you don't realize you don't know about these theological questions? aka unknown unknowns.

If those "essential" teachings were incorrect would you want to know it? What I mean is, suppose there were verses and reasoning that support the orthodox view of these theological questions that you are unaware of. Then suppose you took all those verses and reasonings, and compared them the the WT theology. And finally suppose that the orthodox view seemed more reasonable. Would you accept the orthodox view?

How did you decide that those teachings are "essential"? Is there a place in the scriptures that lists these as "essential" teachings?

Why do you have to go to somewhere or someone? Why do you need a fleshly place or a group of people to have eternal life? Peter was only speaking of Christ? Isn't it a stretch to take a reference to the son of Jehovah, and apply it to imperfect humans?

Thanks in advance for any input you give me on the quality of these questions.

Now that I have thought some more about the questions you asked, maybe it would be a good idea for you to read some books that defend orthodox Christianity against JW refutations. One good book I read was by Randall Watters called, Refuting Jehovah's Witnesses available at freeminds.org. In that book he addresses issues like the cross, holiday, soul, trinity, and war.

Randy is an "apostate" and he posts here under the name dogpatch. I figure someone with a "good faith" like yours isn't afraid of things like that. If the JW are right on these matters, then their beleifs will withstand ANY scrutiny. The truth is never afraid of questioning. The truth relishes and invites it, because it knows it will be bourne out by such examination.

Another book that isn't to bad for dealing with many of the theology questions is Reasoning From the Scriptures with Jehovah's Witnesses by Ron Rhodes. That one asks some pretty good questions. There is a JW apologist that wrote a book as an apparant answer to that book called Jehovah's Witnesses Defended by Greg Stafford which is available at elihu.com I beleive. I haven't read that book yet, so I can't give any feedback on it.

Hope this helps.

CYP

55

Jehovah's INEFFECTIVE Witness...(Why no TV ministry???)

by Terry in

jw
friends

what if i asserted the following as true?

the watchtower bible and tract society has no interest in an effective evangelical program of conversion.. would that sound silly?

disfellowshipping would lead to having a big target placed on the ex jw's back at armageddon.. .

Check_Your_Premises

Terry,

Great insight and info.

I think the preaching work is 1% recruiting, and 99% keeping the faithful indoctrinated. One of the strongest principles of persuasion used by compliance professionals throughout the ages is the human need for consistency. If a person does something, they have a need to have subsequent behaviour be consistent with the original act. The need for consistency is GREATLY increased if the original act is difficult, since a person will not want to rationalize that they endured for nothing. The need for consistency can be increased as well by making the original act somehow public. The person will not want to have his behaviour seen as inconstent to those around them.

The preaching work harnesses both of those aspects of consitency, and I have found from my personal experience that it has a powerful effect on the thinking of the individual JW.

I was thinking some more about what you said about the corporation and it's land investment. That is the one that always gets me. There is this insatiable drive for money, but no lavish lifestyles. JW's will swear to you that nobody is profiting. Is the drive for money simply one present in all organizations? The simple desire for self preservation that all organizations posses. For instance I always wonder about organizations like the American Cancer Society. DO they really want to cure cancer and put themselves out of a job?

Ok, even if nobody is living it up... someone is getting paid! Someone is selling the ink and paper.

CYP

22

My Daughters B-day Party!

by whyamihere in

jw
friends

well my lily turned 4 today *sniff*..... she got many many toys....what to do with all this crap!.

all the food.......i must work out tomorrow..... .

getting a new barbie doll(like she needs a new one)..... .

Check_Your_Premises

Awesome Brooke!

I am going to celebrate my youngest daughters birthday in April. I can't wait!

Hope you used alot of hand sanitizer! I was at target and they had those keychain dispensers at the checkout line.

See ya!

CYP

76

Wow LittleToe!

by IP_SEC in

jw
friends

dang man, your site has seen a lot of traffic over the past few years .

nice.

http://www.angelfire.com/trek/littletoe/profile.html.

Check_Your_Premises

I second the "wow" LT.

I had no idea you went out with such a bang. I understand what your intentions were, but I would love to have heard that you did this at an assembly.

Well, I know how much strain this has probably put on your family. But you are following your conscience, so I hope whatever suffering you are enduring be lessened by that fact.

Take care,

CYP

23

I Talked To A Friend About His Feeling That JWs Are Right In "Some" Things

by minimus in

jw
friends

this friend was a fellow elder with me.

in the last few years he's successfully faded with his immediate family.

however his mother who was never "strong in the truth" is still a "believer".

Check_Your_Premises

gloat gloat gloat

23

I Talked To A Friend About His Feeling That JWs Are Right In "Some" Things

by minimus in

jw
friends

this friend was a fellow elder with me.

in the last few years he's successfully faded with his immediate family.

however his mother who was never "strong in the truth" is still a "believer".

Check_Your_Premises

Since he is still trying to find the truth I might suggest a couple of books that could help him in general, rather than give him all the answers to his specific "hang ups".

The first is How to Find the Truth by Joseph Brinks http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0970882408/sr=8-2/qid=1139594928/ref=sr_1_2/002-7923498-4217611?%5Fencoding=UTF8

This book is pretty good in the sense that it gives you a methodology to use in trying to find spiritual truth. It relies on an adaptation of the tried and true scientific methods. On the other hand it does use examples of this method that appears to be a thinly veiled attempt to debunk Christianity and promote Orthodox Judaism. But ultimately it is about the "how" of finding spiritual truth and challenges the reader to validate all their conclusions, rather than accept them at face value.

Another great book is Finding Faith by Brian McLaran. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310238382/qid=1139595459/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-7923498-4217611?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

This book is just an absolute gem. It goes through all of the questions and issues that come up for a person as they seek to find a relationship with God. Again the focus of this book is the "how" of faith rather than the "what". Furthermore it goes through a great description of "bad faith" that is probably a must read for any current or recovering dub. A few (off the top of my head) "bad faith" identifiers are:

1. Based on unquestioned human leadership

2. Is arrogant and unteachable

3. Is based on fear or coersion

4. Is dishonest (denies or avoids the existence of facts that might refute faith)

So that is my advice. Help him to focus on the "how" of his faith. If that is sound, the "what" will naturally evolve from it.

CYP

63

What Is Gods Name?

by Legolas in

if there is a god...don't any of you find it odd that we don't even know his name!

i mean... if he was real why didn't he preserve his name for all of us to know?

i mean think of it, it is really stupid isn't!

Check_Your_Premises

According to the bible CYP, gods name is important!

I don't know if it is in the sense that it needs to be audibly spoken. It is not a magic word is it? Might you be reading with your wt filter?

I think it is important in the sense that it represents his nature. "Hallowed be thy name" might be rightly understood as "hallowed be thy unique identity and nature".

Which is more important to know or understand?

63

What Is Gods Name?

by Legolas in

if there is a god...don't any of you find it odd that we don't even know his name!

i mean... if he was real why didn't he preserve his name for all of us to know?

i mean think of it, it is really stupid isn't!

Check_Your_Premises

I have always thought the JW fascination with the name of God to be odd and irrelevant.

How could it possibly matter one way or the other whether or not a person audibly produces the correct consonants and vowels associated with the Creator.

The significance of a name is only that it identifies a distinct person. It might carry the extra function of providing an attribute with which to identify the person.

But here is a question that highlights the absurdity of this fascination.

Suppose I speak the name Jehovah, and say I am serving him by murdering someone. Suppose another person speaks the name Lucifer, or Satan, or Devil, and claims to serve him by helping another in a way they would want to be helped.

Who does the first person serve? Who does the second person serve? Did the name they utter have any bearing on the answer to these questions?

CYP

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises