Posts by Check_Your

124

Why do women make up the majority?

by daniel-p in

jw
friends

i want to pose what is to me an interesting question: .

why is there a preponderance of women in religion?

i think we all agree that females do make up the majority of pretty much every religion, including jw's, but why?

Check_Your_Premises

I did a quick poll at the meeting last week.

25 men

37 women

(not including children)

I counted 7 women with children and no husband there.

52

UBMs - why do we love JWs??

by Super_Becka in

i think there's been a thread on this before, but i figured i'd ask again.. for all of the ubms out there, why is it that we love witnesses??

what is it about them that we find so attractive??

why are we putting ourselves through this mess when we know full-well that there are lots of non-jws out there who would be better for us??.

Check_Your_Premises

(((Why Georgia)))

Sounds like you need a vacation too!

CYP

52

UBMs - why do we love JWs??

by Super_Becka in

i think there's been a thread on this before, but i figured i'd ask again.. for all of the ubms out there, why is it that we love witnesses??

what is it about them that we find so attractive??

why are we putting ourselves through this mess when we know full-well that there are lots of non-jws out there who would be better for us??.

Check_Your_Premises

I'll think on what you said and the part about screwing up our kids lives, that hit home as well!!

Glad it was well received. You have to careful when you go the grumpy old man route.... sometimes it backfires. Luckily you were in the mood for a grumpy old man giving it to you straight.... which to me shows a maturity, character, and ability to accept harsh truths.

The part about messing up your kids is the one nobody ever warned me about. Whenever I made a bunch of dumb decisions people would try to appeal to me by pointing out the damage I was doing to my life. Dummy! If I cared about myself I wouldn't be doing these things!!!

Everybody cares about their kids though!

On the other hand, there is an especially sick sort of self loathing I have noticed.... whereby people think so little of themselves, they actually project that loathing onto their children.

But I digress.

I have found that a good rule when looking for a guy/girl, is to ask yourself... "would I want this person as my children's parent? Is this how I would want my children to turn out?" This dawned on me when once when I considered the idea of dating a stripper. Is this how I wanted my daughter to turn out?!?!?!

If the answer is no, they gotta go.

"But I am not marrying this person, just dating"

Babies don't care about your little plans. They show up when and where they damn well please.... and when they do they have an attitude, they are the purest example of self-centered you will ever find!

CYP

21

Certainty, truth, and the JW's

by Check_Your_Premises in

pardon me while i think out loud.

this is kind of half baked.

to know truth is perhaps the most illusive and yet most important things.

Check_Your_Premises

The concept of "faith" which, in spite of appearances, I have been holding from the time I left JWs (20 years ago now), implies that I really don't know what I will be able to believe next week, next month or next year.

I don't think you mean to say that they change all that often... but if new facts or ideas come to light, you are completely willing to change your opinions to reflect those facts or ideas?

It is distinct from belief in the sense that it allows me to question (and potentially give up) any particular belief (including "God"). Yet it is not completely something else in the sense that it implies that I act today upon the beliefs I hold today, even if they may change tomorrow.

That is part of the definition of faith I think, that it is sufficient to compel you to action.

52

UBMs - why do we love JWs??

by Super_Becka in

i think there's been a thread on this before, but i figured i'd ask again.. for all of the ubms out there, why is it that we love witnesses??

what is it about them that we find so attractive??

why are we putting ourselves through this mess when we know full-well that there are lots of non-jws out there who would be better for us??.

Check_Your_Premises

I can't help but wonder if Becka in some way enjoys the 'drama' of this relationship more than the relationship itself.

Well put Carla. UBM and ex-jw are such sympathetic and dramatic titles... I could imagine that some would want to don them, if they could do so without all the misery: brainwashed children, martyred children, loneliness, alienation, broken marriages, and broken families. I try not to be annoyed by those who I think might be trying to share in our misery on the cheap (without the costs). I just try to help them to help their captive sweethearts.

CYP

21

Certainty, truth, and the JW's

by Check_Your_Premises in

pardon me while i think out loud.

this is kind of half baked.

to know truth is perhaps the most illusive and yet most important things.

Check_Your_Premises

Thanks Narkissos and MJ. I was hoping you guys would pitch in as well.

CYP

21

Certainty, truth, and the JW's

by Check_Your_Premises in

pardon me while i think out loud.

this is kind of half baked.

to know truth is perhaps the most illusive and yet most important things.

Check_Your_Premises

Regard for truth vs. loyalty to a conceptual model

Yeah, that is the trick. Christianity (whether it be "true" or "Mere") requires faith for salvation. The jw requires faith in their group, "Mere Christianity" requires faith in Christ.

Does faith in Christ require a belief in a factual person and set of events? Yeah, probably. What if evidence is shown that minimizes the likelihood of even his existence? Or what if another explanation for these events is given that seems more simple (Occam's Razor), such as the posts Terry has put up lately explaining the cultural background of the Greco-Romanized Jewish milieu that Christ is said to have inhabited. Nevertheless, these various bits of data aren't the sole source of my faith. I don't believe in the man Jesus because there is some quote from Josephus (that is arguably inauthentic).

Something I am beginning to realize is that our faith should start from "where we can get on our own steam", as C.S. Lewis put it. If we just start off with the Bible, aren't we just adopting the religion of our family/culture? Of course I am a CHristian! I grew up in America!!!

So my starting point is an observation of the world I live in and humanity in general. We all have an innate understanding and expectation of the fundamental law; do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Universal Laws require a Unverisal law giver, a Designer, a Mind. All mankind, for whatever reason, are detached from that Law Giver, that Creator. We are at conflict with that law. I can see this without cracking a Bible. To me the question of whether the Garden of Eden is myth or fact is irrelevant. Further, I can see the futility of mankind trying to acheive this unity with our Creator by following a list of rules. We are flawed not in our actions, but in the things that we love, our motivations. We don't need a teacher, but rather someone who can change us, make us new. And that is something that can only be given freely by the grace of our Creator. (This is the short, non-comprehensive version of course, and not the point of my post. So athiests, please respect the scope of this post. Pick at the above paragraph on another thread if you must.)

The above has the ring of truth to me; as something that I just always knew. It is what I love about God, and why I seek him out. That is why I am a Christian. It is an ethos that I love and the reason I have faith. Not because of facts, events, logical constructs, or some rock solid set of apologetics.

So were I to be shown completely irrefutable evidence that Christ never existed, I would have to adopt that reality into my understanding of the person Jesus. But my understanding of God would remain intact. Were I given a better understanding of a God with a superior ethos, I would adopt that reality into my understanding as well.

I guess that is the difference. A jw sees loss of faith in the org, as a step down. Were I to reject my concept of God, my Christianity, my faith in Christ, it would only be for something better.

CYP

52

UBMs - why do we love JWs??

by Super_Becka in

i think there's been a thread on this before, but i figured i'd ask again.. for all of the ubms out there, why is it that we love witnesses??

what is it about them that we find so attractive??

why are we putting ourselves through this mess when we know full-well that there are lots of non-jws out there who would be better for us??.

Check_Your_Premises

But to ask a well-phrased question....
Super_Becka, what would be the deal-breaker in your relationship that would convince you to walk away?

Notice it was ignored?

52

UBMs - why do we love JWs??

by Super_Becka in

i think there's been a thread on this before, but i figured i'd ask again.. for all of the ubms out there, why is it that we love witnesses??

what is it about them that we find so attractive??

why are we putting ourselves through this mess when we know full-well that there are lots of non-jws out there who would be better for us??.

Check_Your_Premises

It's like i can't get enough of him!!

Doesn't sound healthy to me. Needing people is a bad idea. People will always let you down. Be happy by yourself, and only then are you ready to actually love someone.

Loving someone isn't needing them around to be emotionally stable. Love is seeking/wanting what is in a person's best interests. That even means you might decide not to be around them if that is what is best for them.

I am sure you have no desire to read the above... neither did I when I learned all the awful lessons that gave me the above insights.

A great secret in life is to learn from the mistakes of other's. A bad idea is to look at other's who went through the same situation and figure you are somehow different.

But don't worry about it. It is just you who will bear the consequences. It is not like your kids will have to deal with all the pain, risk, and turmoil of being raised in a cult.

Trust me. There is nothing worse than looking at your kids and knowing you screwed them over.

CYP

48

Letter to Ritchie's Mom

by jgnat in

a young man is on the verge of saying goodbye to his mother.

he's forced in to this position due by a rigid organization that punishes strength, intelligence, and individuality.

i dedicate this thread to all good thoughts about richie rich.

Check_Your_Premises

Mrs Richie's Mom,

First off I want to thank you for raising such a great kid. I am 34, and everytime I have talked with your son I have always been amazed by him. Much past my 20th birthday, I don't think I ever met a 17 year old I wanted to spend any time around. Here I am 14 years later, and I just get the biggest kick out of your son. He is without a doubt the funniest, nicest, wisest, and most decent 17 year old I have ever met.

I understand he is taking a different path from the one you chose for him. As a parent I understand how painful that can be. The great, painful realization of parenting is that you realize you only have so much control over them. Eventually, they are going to do what they want to do, and become who they want to be. All we can do is watch and hold our breath. I wouldn't worry about your son to much. He just has to much going for him. Whatever the truth is, he has the intelligence and honesty to get as close to it as anybody. If he ends up in a different place then you, it would probably make a lot of sense to try to understand why. I sure hope I do as good of a job raising my kids.

The other thing I know from speaking to him, is that he loves his momma very much. And he always will. My mother told me that "the only woman that ever really loves you is your momma."

CYP

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises