Check_Your_Premises

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Posts by Check_Your_Premises

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  61

  "Theocratic Warfare" - An Apostate Strategy?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  who here had ever heard of this so-called 'doctrine' of "theocratic warfare" when you were a jehovah's witness?

  who has not heard of the so-called doctrine now that you are an apostate?

  so why have witnesses never heard of 'doctrine', yet apostates seem to promote it as the last word on witness standards of honesty, integrity and decency?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I am all for having criticisms be legitimate. I think any criticisms have to be FAIR to be effective. If you have to resort to cheap shots, then it tends to indicate that you don't have anything legitimate to complain about.

  I think the "Theocratic Warfare" strategy may be one of those areas where "apostates" take some liberties and make it sound like something it is not.
  

  Here is my paraphrase of what the WT says, "You cannot lie outright but if someone does not deserve to know something, or if it is not in their best interests to know something, then the Witness can be evasive"

  Now I do think that is less then the legal standard of the truth, which is "The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

  This legal standard is carefully worded to require the person to neither add, nor leave out any relevant fact that could be brought to bear in determining whether or not something is true.

  The "Theocratic Warfare" doctrine does allow the witness to omit things under a rather vague case where the witness decides the person doesn't "deserve" or it is not in their "best interests" to know. I can't fault them for using such evasiveness to avoid persecution. I think that is a legitimate use for such evasiveness.

  But to be evasive with a person, who only seeks to serve God, and who is therefore trying to determine if the jw is in fact God's organization, is frankly despicable. They claim to be open to all questions and examinations, but only to the extent that it is in "a persons best interest", which they believe is to only reach a single conclusion.

  Keep in mind, a witness and the GB as well will think that it is not in your best interests to know something that might lead you to the conclusion that they are not the Faithful and Discreet Slave. This does mean they think it is ok to omit facts, no matter how decisive, damning, compelling, and conclusive, that might refute this claim.

  I do therefore think the strategy puts a huge dent in their credibility, and the way they frame all topics and discussions are highly suspect and biased.

  You always have to ask, "so what is the rest of the story"?

  By their own admission, you'll get "nothing but the truth", but you won't get "the whole truth", therefore you are not going to get "the truth" from "the truth".
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  27

  So who is ready, willing, and able to take out their local KH

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on a few threads now we have had the discussion of how to take out a local kh.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90925/1.ashx.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90940/1.ashx.

  the consensus seemed to be that it would require a two pronged approach.. 1. help the newly df, da through loving support and association so they don't go back.. 2. help the new bible studies and return visits with a good inocculation from the "jw are god's org" disease.. let's not talk about how to do that just yet.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I can't believe I forgot about you RR. You should have been my first choice when imagining a good troublemaker.

  I am going to request some secure server space for all the troublemakers and those who have expressed interest in this little experiment in theocratic mayhem.

  A kid your age understanding the proper role of John Wayne and Clint Eastwood in American cinema is automatically ok in my book....

  ......even if he hadn't already posted a picture of an elderly, drooling GB member.
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  58

  WHO IS JOHN GALT? (A survey on Ayn Rand)

  by Terry in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  since its publication in 1957, atlas shrugged has sold more than five million copies.

  perhaps a measure of the book's continuing influence may be estimated from the results of a survey conducted jointly by the library of congress and book-of-the-month club in 1991. the survey asked readers which books had made a difference in people's lives.

  the results found atlas shrugged placing second only to the bible.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Terry,

  I hope you like my full critique of Ayn Rand. I know we never fully discussed the matter when we spoke before. I wasn't sure, but I felt like you were calling me out a little bit.

  I thought of someone you might like even more than Ayn Rand.

  From what I know about you, and the discussions we have had, I really think you would get a kick out of The True Believer by Eric Hoffer.

  It is a very short and pithy book, but it's idea/word ratio is very high. You might like it too Sith. It is one of the books that helped shatter any idealistic notion I had of man being a "heroic" being.

  CYP
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  58

  WHO IS JOHN GALT? (A survey on Ayn Rand)

  by Terry in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  since its publication in 1957, atlas shrugged has sold more than five million copies.

  perhaps a measure of the book's continuing influence may be estimated from the results of a survey conducted jointly by the library of congress and book-of-the-month club in 1991. the survey asked readers which books had made a difference in people's lives.

  the results found atlas shrugged placing second only to the bible.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I guess I have to say something here, since we have spoken in the past and you know I am a reformed-objectivist. My screen name itself is Rand-enese.

  I will say this. If we work from the assumption that there is no God, then Ayn Rand came about as close as anybody to providing a universal and practical system of ethics. Randian ethics guided me and sustained me for years. Many of her thoughts and ideas still keep me out of trouble.

  She did not answer one of the fundamental question of philosophy, and no human has. How does man, starting from himself find a universal meaning to his existence. She would probably argue that it isn't a valid premise. If I remember correctly she didn't buy into the need for universals. Regardless of what Ms. Rand thought about them, I struggled greatly with not having a sense of meaning. But I was never much of a philosopher.

  Where objectivism broke down for me was in her concept of man as a rational being. That was the sum of her message. Be rational, and everything will be ok. The meaning of your life is whatever inspires you. The problem is that man is not capable of being consistently rational. Man is only capapable of being rational from time to time, and in certain circumstances. Experience has taught me that man is a reliabley irrational, self-destructive, malleable, murky and muddled being.

  I guess the best test of objectivism is how it worked for it's creator. Was it a practical system for her? Was Ayn Rand a happy person? I paraphrase Ms. Rand as saying that if a person is unhappy it is because they are not living according to their values. From what I understand she spent many years as and died a very lonely, bitter, and unhappy person.

  I don't know if I agree with Terry that her books on philosophy were necessarily better than her novels. I will say this, her philosophy was the most delightful thing about her novels. She was a third rate novelist. She was extremely repetitive in her themes almost to the point of monotony (I often found myself saying, "Ok Ayn, I get it already!"), her characters were one dimensional and unrealistic (nobody talks like that!), and she was even repetitive in her word choices (every time someone kissed in one of her books she wrote, "his mouth was on hers") Come on Ayn! Put it another way!

  To make myself plain though, I must say that I cited my criticisms only as a practical matter. It would simply be to difficult and timely to list everything I love about Ayn Rand. Regarding any other aspect of Ayn Rand or her work you can safely assume that I am an adoring fan. I love her dearly and am eternally grateful for all I learned from her books.
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  27

  So who is ready, willing, and able to take out their local KH

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on a few threads now we have had the discussion of how to take out a local kh.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90925/1.ashx.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90940/1.ashx.

  the consensus seemed to be that it would require a two pronged approach.. 1. help the newly df, da through loving support and association so they don't go back.. 2. help the new bible studies and return visits with a good inocculation from the "jw are god's org" disease.. let's not talk about how to do that just yet.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  most impressive Danny.

  WOuld you care to enlighten us with your particular methods at that KH.

  I did notice it is still standing. What is taking you so long? Why hasn't it been turned into a bank or a funeral home?
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  27

  So who is ready, willing, and able to take out their local KH

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on a few threads now we have had the discussion of how to take out a local kh.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90925/1.ashx.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90940/1.ashx.

  the consensus seemed to be that it would require a two pronged approach.. 1. help the newly df, da through loving support and association so they don't go back.. 2. help the new bible studies and return visits with a good inocculation from the "jw are god's org" disease.. let's not talk about how to do that just yet.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Now I see why you have a gun in each hand

  Pretty much. I am here to kick some ass.

  But I am only speaking about decimating membership and inducing paranoia.

  NO VIOLENCE!

  Let them be the ones that ruin lives.
• 
  27

  So who is ready, willing, and able to take out their local KH

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on a few threads now we have had the discussion of how to take out a local kh.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90925/1.ashx.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90940/1.ashx.

  the consensus seemed to be that it would require a two pronged approach.. 1. help the newly df, da through loving support and association so they don't go back.. 2. help the new bible studies and return visits with a good inocculation from the "jw are god's org" disease.. let's not talk about how to do that just yet.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Actually, as soon as they sense you are a troublemaker

  That is why it has to be someone with nothing to lose... a rare animal here I am sure.

  I would already be doing it myself if it wasn't for my own fears and limitations.
• 
  27

  So who is ready, willing, and able to take out their local KH

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on a few threads now we have had the discussion of how to take out a local kh.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90925/1.ashx.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90940/1.ashx.

  the consensus seemed to be that it would require a two pronged approach.. 1. help the newly df, da through loving support and association so they don't go back.. 2. help the new bible studies and return visits with a good inocculation from the "jw are god's org" disease.. let's not talk about how to do that just yet.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Who is "we"?

  All of the nice folks here who want to see a KH implode.
• 
  27

  So who is ready, willing, and able to take out their local KH

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on a few threads now we have had the discussion of how to take out a local kh.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90925/1.ashx.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90940/1.ashx.

  the consensus seemed to be that it would require a two pronged approach.. 1. help the newly df, da through loving support and association so they don't go back.. 2. help the new bible studies and return visits with a good inocculation from the "jw are god's org" disease.. let's not talk about how to do that just yet.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  On a few threads now we have had the discussion of how to take out a local KH.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90925/1.ashx

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/90940/1.ashx

  The consensus seemed to be that it would require a two pronged approach.

  1. Help the newly df, da through loving support and association so they don't go back.

  2. Help the new bible studies and return visits with a good inocculation from the "jw are God's org" disease.

  Let's not talk about how to do that just yet.

  Let's have some people speak up who are ready to do that. Some folks who have nothing to fear from the org, and are ready and willing to take on such a project.

  Only serious inquiries.

  Anyone?!

  We will counsel you on how to do it. Once we figure out the kinks, we can make it a franchise.
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  42

  How to implode your local congregation

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i threw this out on another thread and someone asked that i give it it's own.

  there were other ideas thrown out, but this one is developed enough to merit discussion.

  i am not sure how to pull this off.. .

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Well there are some great ideas here. I think the impulse is to be a little amibitious in scope. What would probably be best is for someone in the right situation (nothing to lose), to employ some of these ideas on their local KH.

  Work on it for awhile. Try different things. Get an idea for what works and what doesn't. Once the kinks are worked out, make it a franchise. Put your ideas out so all can use them.

  So are there any ready to try to take out their local KH? Is there anybody here with nothing to fear from the jw?