164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
Actually I am not a catholic.I see many similarities between JW's and Catholics,both teach that no one can understand the Bible without their help.I just have a hard time swallowing the watch towers line of reasoning especially considering what hypocrites they are.
An example is them constantly referring to elders as being imperfect men but yet in the same breath being quick to disfellowship a weak brother or sister.
Craig
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
I did a search on on Matthew 28:16-20
here's what it says.
16 However, the eleven disciples went into Gal´i·lee to the mountain where Jesus had arranged for them, 17 and when they saw him they did obeisance, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU . And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
16 However, the eleven disciples went into Gal´i·lee to the mountain where Jesus had arranged for them, 17 and when they saw him they did obeisance, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU . And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.
the definition of the word obeisance
o·bei·sance  ( -b  s ns, -b -) n. 1. A gesture or movement of the body, such as a curtsy, that expresses deference or homage. 2. An attitude of deference or homage. [Middle English obeisaunce , from Old French obeissance , from obeissant , present participle of obeir , to obey; see obey.] o·bei sant adj. |
| Noun | 1. |  obeisance - bending the head or body or knee as a sign of reverence or submission or shame bowing, bow gesture, motion - the use of movements (especially of the hands) to communicate familiar or prearranged signals curtsey, curtsy - bending at the knees; a gesture of respect made by women genuflection, genuflexion - the act of bending the knees in worship or reverence kotow, kowtow - a former Chinese custom of touching the ground with the forehead as a sign of respect or submission scrape, scraping - a deep bow with the foot drawn backwards (indicating excessive humility); "all that bowing and scraping did not impress him" salaam - a deep bow; a Muslim form of salutation |
| 2. |  obeisance - the act of obeying; dutiful or submissive behavior with respect to another person obedience submission, compliance - the act of submitting; usually surrendering power to another truckling - the act of obeying meanly (especially obeying in a humble manner or for unworthy reasons |
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
Just thought of something else
The name watchtower brings up images of wizards and warlocks to me.
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
News Flash,
Some how an elder from my fiances last congregation found out where she lives and paid her a visit today.She's tripping because she was disfellowshipped about 10 years ago.I have a feeling her mother is the one who dropped the dime and asked them to visit.Her parents have some serious issues too.They're constantly making remarks about how spoiled i am and keep thinking my parents are rich.lol
I
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
I'm thinking about going to the next convention the JW's have and partake of the emblems .I want to see the reaction when I do so.I mean who are they to say I'm not annointed?Why do they call it partaking of the emblem when in scripture its commonly referred to as being in communion or taking communion?Another thing that bothers me is if this act is for only the so-called annointed then the desciples of Christ got it all wrong and for that matter so did Christ.The Dubs also attend a memorial,well the last I checked memorials are in remembrance of those who are dead,so you see we have anpther problem because the Dubs teach that Christ has been reigning since,1874,oops I mean 1914,or was that 1925.?
Well you can see where the problems begin to arise.
Craig
of the never been a witness never will be class.
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
Wow,
the more I read this thread the more amazed how duped JW's are.I'm constantly reading about how Jdubs arenn't prideful but when you really take a good look at them ,they are nothing but prideful and arrogant.
As far as the 144,000,they have it all wrong.
the texts clearly state that these would be 12,000 each from the twelve tribes of Israel and these would be male virgins having known no woman.Furthermore these would be given to preaching the word through out the world.
The J -dubs also forget to include the tow witnesses who are killed then resurrected 3 days later.
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
22 What was the experience of Jehovah’s Witnesses during World War II? They suffered intense persecution! It started in Nazi and Fascist countries. But soon ‘truth was being thrown to the earth’ throughout the vast domain of the ‘small horn whose power had become mighty.’ “The army” of Kingdom proclaimers and their work of preaching “the good news” were banned in almost all of the British Commonwealth. (Mark 13:10) When these nations conscripted their manpower, they refused to grant ministerial exemption to Jehovah’s Witnesses, showing no respect for their theocratic appointment as ministers of God. Mob violence and various indignities were experienced by Jehovah’s faithful servants in the United States. The seventh world power, in effect, tried to take away a sacrifice of praise—“the fruit of lips”—regularly offered to Jehovah by his people as “the constant feature” of their worship. (Hebrews 13:15) That world power thus committed the “transgression” of invading the rightful domain of the Most High God—“the established place of his sanctuary
Its interesting how the witnesses use Mark 13:10 above.
Lets see what it says in the King James
164-179 who can stand against the prince of princes?
who can stand against the prince of princes?
and against the prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.daniel 8:23-25.. 15 you, for your part, keep secret the vision, the angel tells daniel, because it is yet for many days.
"17 What, then, does history identify as that aggressive “king fierce in countenance”? Britain actually was a northwestern offshoot of the Roman Empire. Down till the early part of the fifth century C.E., there were Roman provinces in what is now Britain. In the course of time, the Roman Empire declined, but the influence of the Greco-Roman civilization continued in Britain and in other parts of Europe "
What I would like to know is wha in the world does Brittain have to do with Daniel chapter 8?
By the way has anyone ever thought about the term theocracy?I did a search and here's what I got.
"term theocracy is used to describe a form of government in which a religion or faith plays a dominant role
The word theocracy originates from the Greek ?e???at?a (theokratia). The components of the word ?e?? (theos), “god” and ??ate?? (kratein), “to rule”. The term means “rule by god”.
In the most common usage of the term theocracy, some civil rulers are identical with some leaders of the dominant religion (e.g., the Byzantine emperor as head of the Church), governmental policies are either identical with, or strongly influenced by, the principles of a religion (often the majority religion), and typically, the government claims to rule on behalf of God or a higher power, as specified by the local religion. However, unlike other forms of government, a theocracy can be unique, in that the administrative hierarchy of the government is often identical with the administrative hierarchy of the religion. This distinguishes a theocracy from forms of government which have a state religion, or from traditional monarchies, in which the head of state claims that his or her authority comes from God.
A more literal term for what is commonly meant by "theocracy" is "ecclesiocracy," which denotes the rule of a religious leader or body in the name of God, as opposed to the literal rule of God."
Some more
At present the only nation that could accurately be deemed a theocracy, with little debate, is Vatican City. Although the monastery of Mount Athos is politically self-governed according to the Greek constitution. The Knights Hospitaller is a religious order that also has a self-governing status as well.
Even more
In the past several nations of varying faiths were deemed theocracies. Although this appraisal was occasionally inaccurate or simplistic it does work in least in some cases. An example often given is Pharaohnic Egypt when the king was a divine or semi-divine figure who ruled largely through priests. The period when Dalai Lamas ruled Tibet, especially before certain twentieth century reforms, has also been deemed a theocracy at times. Although the nature of Tibetan Buddhism, arguably, makes the use of the term a bit complicated.
In Christianity Geneva during the period of John Calvin's greatest influence is often classed as theocratic. As are some of the prince-bishop regimes in Catholicism or Eastern Orthodox Christianity, but this classification is debatable. The Papal States were also a theocracy and ancestor of the current Vatican. Florence under the rule of Girolamo Savonarola is also at times considered a theocracy.
In Islam the period when Medina was ruled by the Prophet Muhammed is also, occasionally, classed as a theocracy. Other plausible examples of Islamic theocracy might be Mahdist Sudan and the Taliban.
At other times in history a theocratic or semi-theocratic state is set up as a form of social protest or because of utopian idealism. The largest effort toward that end might be the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom of nineteenth century China. Tenskwatawa's "Prophets Town" was also a religious city state of a kind, although was possibly more of an intentional community rather then a theocracy.
What I'm getting at is the Watchtower fashions themselves after many pagan governmants and religions ,because don't they refer to themselves as a theocracy and don't they have a theocratic ministry school?They also use theocratic warfare.
