i urge any lurkers, or newbies, or doubter here to read...and study the proclaimers book....and read many old articles in the watchtower.
anybody who can explian to me how we could be sooooo wrong about soooo many things...........you have a willing ear here.
gods holy spirit would not allow for teaching falsehoods....period!
The Society substitutes their supposed "New Light" not for "Old Light", but "Old Darkness." There is no gradually increasing understanding.
Secondly, and perhaps of greater importance (cf. 1 John 2:21), the Watch Tower Society lies about its "Old Light".
ok, just got off the phone with my wife and she has started a new bible study with still another new sister.
she likes this woman, unfortunately.
well my wife's original intention was to learn how to study the bible, well it seems that the sister twisted this to ask her to provide a topic she wants to know more about and then she will show my wife what the bible says about this.
The 01. April 1986 Watchtower states:
“Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include? [...] That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3)
The 1995 WT refutes their own WTS doctrine re: only 144 000 going to heaven.
8 When Israel rejected and killed His Son, Jesus Christ, God finally rejected her. So no longer was that Jewish nation a figurative wife to Him, nor was He the Father and Teacher of her wayward sons. (Matt. 23: 37,38) However, Israel was only a typical, or symbolic, wife. The apostle Paul quoted Isaiah 54: 1, which speaks of a "barren woman" who is different and distinct from "the woman with the husbandly owner," the nation of natural Israel. Paul reveals that anointed Christians are children of the "barren woman," whom he calls "Jerusalem above." This antitypical figurative woman consists of God's heavenly organization of spirit creatures. -- Galatians 4: 26,27. (wt95 08/01 page 11 paragraph 8)
The scripture thus indicates (using the WTS' own interpretation of the 'women') that the number of anointed Christians exceeds that of fleshly Israel. The cumulative number of natural Israelites between the Exodus and the coming of Christ Jesus was in the many tens of millions; therefore, many more than 144 000 are spirit-anointed Christians.
I hope this helps.
i have started to read about cults with the book by steve hassan.
i look over my shoulder at the library, no way in the world i will check it out or buy it and take it home.
thank you all for your recommendations.
And you can't form a judicial commitee to have a fishing expedition. You can have 2 elders ask questions so as to investigate a matter but that is not a JC. If a person admits to wrongdoing without any witnesses, a JC can be formed but not only by means of 1 witness or even hearsay.
These things would violate official policy. But such things occasionally do happen nonetheless, particularly if the victim is unaware of proper procedure.
well, actually, this is a pdf of the september 1, 1908 watchtower.
this is the "spiritual food" the people in the organization were receiving a hundred years ago!
at that time, the magazine was called zion's watch tower and herald of christ's presence and was still being distributed from allegheny, pennsylvania.
I remember the letter from the Reprints, and have always wondered if it were legitimate or written in house; the name "I. N. Cognito" struck me as tongue-in-cheek...
notice that in 1922 they knew that the resurrection of the anointed had at least begun if not come to completion.
and yet in 2007 they are in discussion about when this took place.
*** re chap.
01. April 1986 QfR:Do we have Scriptural precedent for taking such a strict position? Indeed we do! Paul wrote about some in his day: "Their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:17, 18; see also Matthew 18:6.) There is nothing to indicate that these men did not believe in God, in the Bible, in Jesus’ sacrifice. Yet, on this one basic point, what they were teaching as to the time of the resurrection, Paul rightly branded them as apostates, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship.
This is most fascinating. When the F&DS was supposedly appointed in 1919, the Watch Tower Society was still teaching that the Resurrection had begun in 1878 -- a teaching not altered until 1927 -- and which teaching the WTS now rejects as false. Does it not bugger the imagination to believe the Lord appointed over all his belongings an organisation that (by its own published standard) would be 'rightly branded apostate, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship'? Furthermore, I'm calling foul on their attempts to moderate their previous dogma. I remember something regarding the pre-2007 teaching that the resurrection had unequivocally begun in 1918. In the Paradise Lost book, page 192, paragraph 30 it stated in no uncertain terms:
"One of the many enlightening truths that God now gave his witnesses was about the members of God's spiritual nation who had died physically. This was in 1927. In that year the witnesses understood that the dead spiritual Israelites had been raised in 1918 to life in heaven with Christ Jesus. It was an invisible resurrection, of course."
Since the Society stated that it was God himself who gave them the teaching, they are in no position to repudiate that teaching. They should be stuck with it...
first, pastor russell had joined adventist bible students in their enthusiam for end times chronologies.. next, russell teamed up with leading adventist thinkers like george storrs and barbour to publish these chronologies and apologies.. finally, russell used his private wealth to cut and paste ideas from all over the religious map into his own peculiar name-brand version of adventism which included pyramidology.. local congregations kept autonomy.
russell would have it no other way.
but, russell had died in 1916.. .
Under Russell the 144,000 little flock were glorified resurrected christians who went to heaven along with non-glorified Great Crowd christians who also went to heaven.
Rutherford saw his membership figures climbing beyond 60,000 and threatening to exceed 144,000.
This would be embarrassing. Consequently, a doctrinal change or "new light" emerged making the Great Crowd an earthly group of Jehovah's Witnesses distinct in kind and nature from the heavenly anointed.
Your point about how membership numbers forced the new doctrine of the great crowd ...
The increasing numbers of Bible Students affiliated with the Watch Tower Society did not force the change in doctrine. The Watch Tower Society taught the following in the 1917 publication The Finished Mystery on page 103:
FM103
Was ten thousand times ten thousand, and
thousands of thousands
.— The number of theGreat Company will apparently exceed one
hundred millions. Num. 4:46-48 and Ex. 28:1
indicate but one priest to each 2,860 Levites,
which would make the number of the Great
Company approximate 411,840,000.— T118,
119; Dan. 7:10. 5:12
i have been having a serious dicussion on another site with a jw.
so far i think i have got my point across regarding 1914 and how the date wasn't actually predicted.
whereas he has come back and said that they did in fact predict "the end of the gentile times".. to a point he is right, russell and his associates did say this.
Mr. Majestic writes:
I suppose a good question to ask them would be, if Jesus was inspecting for true followers, and the bible students were the ones ‘keeping awake’ to the times back then, why is it that both Russell, and Rutherford at the time of inspection believed that Jesus had been ruling for 40 years…..??
Neither of them believed Jesus presence started in 1914 at that time, and Russell never did. How can that be found ‘keeping awake’…??/
And yet the Greatest Man book states (chapters 131 and/or 132) that when Jesus arrived in 1914, only his true disciples saw it. So I guess that "proves" that Russell, Rutherford, and the Bible Students (later called JW's) were not his true disciples. The Society continued to teach that the Second Parousia began in 1874 until at least 1929 (Prophecy book).
i have been having a serious dicussion on another site with a jw.
so far i think i have got my point across regarding 1914 and how the date wasn't actually predicted.
whereas he has come back and said that they did in fact predict "the end of the gentile times".. to a point he is right, russell and his associates did say this.
Yes; the 01. October 1907 WT article was reprinted in December 1913.
The quote from 1907 is found in the Reprints on page 4067
i have been having a serious dicussion on another site with a jw.
so far i think i have got my point across regarding 1914 and how the date wasn't actually predicted.
whereas he has come back and said that they did in fact predict "the end of the gentile times".. to a point he is right, russell and his associates did say this.
Perhaps this would be of some use (from the article "KNOWLEDGE AND FAITH REGARDING CHRONOLOGY"):
But let us suppose a case far from our expectations: Suppose that A.D. 1915 should pass with the world's affairs all serene and with evidence that the "very elect" had not all been "changed" and without the restoration of natural Israel to favor under the New Covenant.(Rom. 11:12,15.) What then? Would not that prove our chronology wrong? Yes, surely! And would not that prove a keen disappointment? Indeed it would! It would work irreparable wreck tothe Parallel dispensations and Israel's Double, and to the Jubilee calculations, and to the prophecy of the 2300 days of Daniel, and to the epoch called "Gentile Times," and to the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days, the latter of which marking the beginning of the Harvest so well fulfilled its prediction, "Oh, the blessedness of him that waiteth and cometh unto the 1335 days!" None of these would be available longer. What a blow that would be! One of the strings of our "harp" would be quite broken! Watch Tower Reprints, p.5368 (December, 1913)
Hope this helps...
over the decades musicians rise and fall like a spring wind.
some stay where they should never be, some never are where they should be; such is the roulette of time.
this thread is dedicated to singer songwriters who influence the rest of the best, but are seldom known - 'gamblers in the neon, clinging to guitars...' .
Gary Brooker.
