Posts by zgborn

6

I Believe Jehovah's Witnesses do the best they can

by zgborn in

i really believe that jehovah's witnesses do the best they can considering the deity they worship.

for starters, they witnesses talk much more about the value of fearing god than the value of loving him.

as a result, they are always on the lookout for any little thing that might piss him off.

zgborn

I really believe that Jehovah's Witnesses do the best they can considering the deity they worship. For starters, they Witnesses talk much more about the value of fearing god than the value of loving him. As a result, they are always on the lookout for any little thing that might piss him off. Little children hunting Easter eggs, for example, or opening Christmas presents. They are afraid that those activities will bring the practicioners thereof under divine judgement, so they avoid them. The same can be said for the celebration of countless local festivals and cultural activities, if they contain so much as a shred of religious derivation from any group not Biblically approved by the WTS, then Jehovah hates them. It is also interesting to see what makes him happy. Certainly the WTS would say that Jehovah derives pleasure from the grief of someone who has suffered loss of life due to the acceptance of a blood transfusion. He would be well pleased that his commandment was obeyed. Whereas someone who "compromised their integrity" and accepted a transfusion would be the object of Jehovah's fury at armegaddon because they didn't obey the rules.

In short, they do not believe that the creator is a loving entity, but consider him tough to please, demanding and jealous. Their motivation for virtually everything is avoiding his wrath.

Not long ago I read the most interesting book, "Ask, and it is Given", by Esther Hicks. This woman describes the most loving god imaginable, and goes into lengthy detail to explain why god loves us, what we bring to the table individually that god finds so worthy of adoration and appreciation. She tells the story that all beliefs are acceptable to god, but the criteria she uses to recommend the best of the lot are these;

First, your beliefs should make you love god, the creator of this experience, with as much zest as possible. And the best way to accomplish that is to look for things to love everyday. Look for things and people that make you feel love, joyfulness, kindness, hope, peacefulness, in short, look for things that make you feel good and glad to be alive. Appreciate your beingness.

The next criteria is simple too. Look for reasons to love your neighbor, and everyone on this planet is your neighbor. Love your enemies. If you want to love your enemies, you get to know them first, and then find reasons to love them. Sometimes, it is necessary to use the tool of forgiveness to get to love, but it is always worth it. Pay attention to how you feel, and strive to feel good.

Now this stands in fairly sharp contrast to the attitude of Jehovah's Witnesses to outsiders. They claim to be loving people, but really that could hardly be farther from the truth. Oh it is true, they are willing to spend their time out preaching the message of the wrath of their god to "worldlings", but their feelings toward them are far from loving. I would describe them as tolerant of outsiders where necessary, but overall afraid of "worldly contamination", so unbelievers are avoided. Love and fear are polar opposites, and you can tell in your gut which is the most active.

I do think the JW's do the best they can, they just worship a fictional god.

If any are interested in a story of creation that will make your heart sing, check out Esther's material at the library, on the web, or look at their videos on youtube. It is very interesting material. If you are a lover of freedom and a lover of life, you will not be disappointed.

zg

11

Jehovah, the Ineffective Creator!

by zgborn in

jw
friends

to hear jehovah's witnesses tell the story, their god is a lousy creator.

consider, from the very beginning of time, he has had his intentions thwarted at every turn.

he intended to have a world filled with loving human worshippers, but from the garden of eden forward, he has not gotten what he wanted.

zgborn

To hear Jehovah's Witnesses tell the story, their god is a lousy creator. Consider, from the very beginning of time, he has had his intentions thwarted at every turn. He intended to have a world filled with loving human worshippers, but from the Garden of Eden forward, he has NOT gotten what he wanted. Those first humans, Adam and Eve, disobediently ignored his wishes and chose a course apart from his intentions. Subsequently Jehovah found it necessary to drown the entire planet to rid it of circumstances that he did not approve of. After that he intended to raise up a nation who would worship him exclusively, but here again, he did not receive the adulation he intended to create for himself, and so after slapping them around for centuries, he finally rejected them completely. After that he intended a new way for people to worship him, and established the Christian Congregation for this purpose, but within a century or two, that group also fell away from the pure form of worship that he desired. According to the Watchtower interpretation of the Bible, he can't get anything right but finds it necessary every so often to destroy what he has created and start over. Even today, they teach that he has been using them as his prophets, but not a single one of their predictions has actually happened.

Kind of makes me wonder if they really have the right story.

426

One of the Governing Body had a stroke yesterday

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

on may 19th, theodore jaracz had a stroke.

he's in very serious condition in the hospital.. that's all the information i have for now.. barb.

zgborn

A friend of mine who worked in the Service Department in the 80's said that behind his back they referred to Ted as "Colonel Klink" for his physical resemblance to the Hogan's Heroes television character. Of course you could say that Ted was a good reflection of the God he worshipped, emotionally remote and far more concerned with the Society's lists of what was right and wrong (organisational policy) than with being a loving man. Like the pharisees, he was certain that his list of what God wanted was far more important than anything else and he was certain that his angry god would punish with severity anyone transgressing that list. No doubt it seemed foolishness to Ted believe in a loving God when the ancient writings depict the creator as being so quick to bring vengance on anyone who does not have the right list or follow the list scrupulously.

I think that Watchtower leaders, like almost all fundamentalists miss the point of Jesus simple answer when asked what he considered the greatest commandments. Love God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as much as you love yourself.

rl

2

Watchtower Dreams

by zgborn in

as part of the therapy i have been back in lately, my therapist has asked me to remember my dreams so we can investigate them.. thrursday i dreamt that i was back in brooklyn, and walking around the factory area which was fairly dangerous when i lived there in the late 70's and early 80's, i felt unsafe.

the factory complex was being torn down by "brothers" using hand tools, hammer's and chisels and pieces of it were falling on the ground around me.

the reasons why this was happening were not obvious, but i had the feeling that they had other plans for the real estate.

zgborn

As part of the therapy I have been back in lately, my therapist has asked me to remember my dreams so we can investigate them.

Thrursday I dreamt that I was back in Brooklyn, and walking around the factory area which was fairly dangerous when I lived there in the late 70's and early 80's, I felt unsafe. The factory complex was being torn down by "brothers" using hand tools, hammer's and chisels and pieces of it were falling on the ground around me. The reasons why this was happening were not obvious, but I had the feeling that they had other plans for the real estate. My sister and I were looking for a restaurant to get something to eat, but couldn't find one.

Last night I dreamt that I was on a 4WD ride in the mountains (lots of interesting waterfalls) and came on a garage sale (miles from anywhere) full of old and new WT literature. As I was leafing through it, I remember thinking what a load of BS, but maybe I would buy a few things for my mother (still a JW).

Anyone else have any bizarre WT dreams?

Rick

8

Watchtower Prediction Success Rate

by zgborn in

jw
friends

we are all aware of the incorrect predictions of the watchtower society concerning future events which failed to occur.

i personally have a clear memory of telling householders that because six thousand years of human history was due to conclude in the fall of 1975, we could reasonably expect dramatic changes to take place in the government of the earth in that year or shortly thereafter.

my question to all of you is, can anyone point me to a case in watchtower literature where they predicted something that actually happened?

zgborn

We are all aware of the incorrect predictions of the Watchtower Society concerning future events which failed to occur. I personally have a clear memory of telling householders that because six thousand years of human history was due to conclude in the fall of 1975, we could reasonably expect dramatic changes to take place in the government of the earth in that year or shortly thereafter. My question to all of you is, can anyone point me to a case in Watchtower literature where they predicted something that actually happened?

13

Watchtower Predictions

by zgborn in

jw
friends

i have a vivid recollection of going to people's doors as a teenager and telling them that bible chronology indicates that 6000 years of human history is due to expire in the fall of 1975 and we can fully expect a radical change in the world at about that time.

while i know that this was not the first watchtower prediction which proved to be incorrect, what i would like to know is, has any watchtower prediction of a future event come to pass?

zgborn

I have a vivid recollection of going to people's doors as a teenager and telling them that Bible chronology indicates that 6000 years of human history is due to expire in the fall of 1975 and we can fully expect a radical change in the world at about that time. While I know that this was not the first Watchtower prediction which proved to be incorrect, what I would like to know is, has ANY Watchtower prediction of a future event come to pass?

54

Are Circuit Overseers Getting Discouraged?

by metatron in

jw
friends

a sister i know went out with the c.o.

's wife in service recently.

sister c.o.

zgborn

Are Circuit Overseers Getting Discouraged?

It would be fitting considering how discouraging they have been for the last twenty years. When I was growing up, the circuit overseers seemed fairly entheusiastic, energetic and encouraging. I remember we got a new one in 1974 (Bob and Julie Bishop) who got up on the platform and told us that it was the policy of the Society to keep the traveling brothers in their assignments for two years, so he would be serving us when Armageddon came. When he took off to his next assignment, I believe he even ate crow in his final talk to the congregation.

The last few CO's I had contact with were perfectly awful. We had Franklin and Judy Park, who were both so nasty you could hardly believe it. The last time they came around the PO came up to me and asked if we would host them for lunch because he couldn't find anyone else who would put up with them. The last one I had was so bad that I refused to go to the meetings the week he was in town. He was a total jackass and opinionated butthole who gave talks full of misinformation and personal invective. Probably went on to become a DO.

77

Bro. Schroeder dies

by bythesea in

jw
friends

i just received this news from a bro who has connections in bethel.... .

bro albert d schroeder died at 10:30 am new york time today at brooklyn bethel...he was 94 yrs old.. he was born on april 7, 1911 in saginaw, michigan and entered bethel service in 1932. he was appointed a member of the governing body on december 18, 1974. bro schroeder's life story appeared in the march 1, '88 wt pages 10-17: entitled: "my life in jehovah's spirit-directed organization.".

i don't know if the "today" means it was actually today...as i can't be sure when my friend received this news... but anyway, another of the old guys bites the dust.. .

zgborn

One of the first things new members of the Bethel Family in the United States do upon their arrival is sign a release allowing the Society to dispose of your remains at Watchtower Farms in Walkill. The guy who took care of this bit of business when I was a "new boy" was Mark Questell. He prefaced handing us the release with the line "Now we aren't going to work you to death here, but....."

77

Bro. Schroeder dies

by bythesea in

jw
friends

i just received this news from a bro who has connections in bethel.... .

bro albert d schroeder died at 10:30 am new york time today at brooklyn bethel...he was 94 yrs old.. he was born on april 7, 1911 in saginaw, michigan and entered bethel service in 1932. he was appointed a member of the governing body on december 18, 1974. bro schroeder's life story appeared in the march 1, '88 wt pages 10-17: entitled: "my life in jehovah's spirit-directed organization.".

i don't know if the "today" means it was actually today...as i can't be sure when my friend received this news... but anyway, another of the old guys bites the dust.. .

zgborn

I knew he and his wife and son passingly when I lived at Bethel. Charlotte Schroeder was my housekeeper briefly while I lived on the 13th floor of the Towers Building. They came back to Aspen with me after he had been the headline act at the Denver district convention in 1980 (right after they threw Ray Franz out). I arranged a place for them to stay in Aspen with some long-time members of the Aspen congregation. The host family had lived in Aspen for years and were very outdoorsy people. They invited "Bert" and Judah Ben and myself on a short expedition down the Roaring Fork river to where it joins the Colorado. At one point we went over a bit of a rapid and "Bert" very nearly fell out of the raft.

On another occasion I asked him a fairly simple but straightforward question and his answer led me to believe that he didn't even understand the question. (The question was, why in the society's publications are the personal pronouns relating to Jehovah's name sometimes capitalized and sometimes not)? His answer had nothing to do with the question and I don't remember it. Months later I asked one of the sisters who worked in proofreading and she popped out the answer in a heartbeat.

He had been the branch overseer in Britain during WWII and had been thrown out of the country for his efforts encouraging young JW's to fight the draft. I remember his text comments as being utterly uninspired by comparison with others of the GB who could be interesting speakers. Ray Franz was the most interesting, usually giving extremely thought provoking comments that were actually connected to the scripture being discussed. George Gangas was the most predictable, for no matter what the text or society's comments, he would always give his remarks based on

1. Sexual Immorality (how could you throw away eternity with God on a paradise earth for a few moments of illicit pleasure)?

2. Throwing food away which Jehovah had provided

3. Slamming doors when people were trying to rest

During the time I was there Schroeder had a beautiful office at 30 Columbia Heights on one of the upper floors overlooking Manhattan. It had the most striking view of the city I ever saw.