Posts by hmike

32

Crisis of Conscience

by Thinking in

my copy came in and i picked it up today.

i have a friend that i met online.....about 5 years ago.

at the time he was an elder and i was a struggling sister.

hmike

Hmmm...I've had a copy in my bookcase for years (3rd printing, 1987) and never went past Chapter 2. I guess I'd better take another look at it.

13

Books not found in other Bibles

by homme perdu in

i found an oxford bible at a thrift store that included one or two extra books.

i dont recall the names.

can someone please give me some information on this subject?

hmike

No problem, classicist. Orignally, I was going to mention Catholics, but changed it at the last moment.

I bought my copy some 30 years ago as a required text for a class called "Literature and Religion of the Bible" at a local secular community college. This was before some of the newer translations were available, and the instructor probably thought we would fall asleep trying to read the King James.

13

Books not found in other Bibles

by homme perdu in

i found an oxford bible at a thrift store that included one or two extra books.

i dont recall the names.

can someone please give me some information on this subject?

hmike

"I hate to tell you hmike, but Protestants aren't the centre of the universe, I believe 1 billion Catholics and most other Christians before the Reformation had these books in their bible."

I agree. That's why I said most. I didn't know if there are others besides the Roman Catholic Church.

27

little flock

by peacefulpete in

just a comment for the new ones here.

the wt has attatched great doctrinal significance to the words "little flock" in luke 12:32. what however does the context tell us the author was intending?

luke 12 opens with a crowd of curious people gathering and trampling each other and jesus turns to his 12, his friends and disciples, and addresses them with private counsel.

hmike

Hi Narkissos,

Although some throughout Christian history have voluntarily chosen poverty, the intent of teaching was for people not to be attached to material things. It has more to do with attitude?not loving the world or things in it. Nothing should stand in the way of commitment. That doesn't necessarily mean actually getting rid of possessions, but for some, they feel that's what it takes.

It's like someone on a diet. If you can maintain your diet with treats in the house, there's no problem with the treats. If you can't, then you may have to get rid of the treats. But, of course, the problem isn't actually with the presence of treats, it's with the individual on the diet, and it can be dealt with another way. In some cases, it's just easier to remove the physical object.

13

Books not found in other Bibles

by homme perdu in

i found an oxford bible at a thrift store that included one or two extra books.

i dont recall the names.

can someone please give me some information on this subject?

hmike

I have an Oxford Annotated Bible (RSV). It includes the Apocrypha?books from OT times not recognized as part of the canon of scripture by most:

1 & 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Additions to Esther, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Letter of Jeremiah, Prayer of Azariah and the Song of Three Young Men, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, Prayer of Manasseh, 1 & 2 Maccabees

27

little flock

by peacefulpete in

just a comment for the new ones here.

the wt has attatched great doctrinal significance to the words "little flock" in luke 12:32. what however does the context tell us the author was intending?

luke 12 opens with a crowd of curious people gathering and trampling each other and jesus turns to his 12, his friends and disciples, and addresses them with private counsel.

hmike

The traditional interpretation of the Greek word mikros, translated "little," seems to be of small quantity. This certainly would be true if you connected it with the teaching of Jesus about the wide and narrow gates. While it still would be valid to consider the "little flock" to be a small group relative to the whole, I think mikros should be used here as a qualitative term rather than a quantitative one.

In Acts 8:10, Luke uses mikros in "to whom they all gave heed, from the least [mikros] to the greatest..."

Hebrews 8:11?"And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying 'Know the Lord', for all shall know me, from the least [mikros] to the greatest."

Consider that although the "good news" Jesus proclaimed was directed to all people, it was especially appealing to the poor, the crippled, and to those who did demeaning and what were considered to be despicable things to survive?the rejects of society. These people not only struggled economically and physically, they also suffered from what we would call "low self-esteem." They knew they were outcasts with no hope of ever improving their station in life. Also, many would have felt themselves abandoned by God, maybe because of sins they or even their parents or grandparents committed. Even those who were better off in society often saw themselves distant from God when they compared themselves to the religious leaders. Although some would have been bitter, resentful, or jealous, many simply resigned themselves to their life situation with a humility befitting the humble position society had assigned them, even though they may have yearned for something better. For these people, the good news of the kingdom was that "You are acceptable to God, and your time of relief is coming."

In Matthew 18, when the disciples argue over who is the greatest, Jesus calls a child over and tells them that unless they become like children, they cannot enter the kingdom. He goes on to state that the humility of the child is the key quality. Later, in Matt. 19:14, he says that the kingdom of heaven belongs to those like the children (meaning the humble). To me, this is an important connection, for in Luke, he said the Father was pleased to give the kingdom to the little flock.

Finally, looking at Matt. 18:12-14, Jesus tells of the one sheep that runs off from the flock, and the owner goes looking for it and finds it. In v. 14, he ends the story with "Even so, it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, than one of these little [mikros] ones should perish. In the parallel passage, Luke 15:3-7, he ends the story with "...likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner who repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

So, it looks to me that mikros, in this context, refers to a state of humbleness, of denial of self-importance. For some, this was fairly easy because it was part of their daily lives. For others?the wealthy, the powerful, the privileged, those held in high regard by others, or those who simply were proud?they had to set that aside and become like the disadvantaged, at least in attitude. Many could not, however. The people who came to John the Baptist to publicly confess sins, repent, and be baptized for forgiveness were the ones whom Jesus could minister to. The proud, elitist religious leaders did not recognize and respond to the call of God. The requirement of humility?of recognizing one's fallen, sinful, inadequate state, and the need for God's mercy?as a condition for entry into the kingdom, appears throughout the Gospels and in the NT letters.

I propose that "littleness" is a quality common to all the flock. That way, there is no problem of a flock within a flock. Either one is in the flock (kingdom) or is not.

27

little flock

by peacefulpete in

just a comment for the new ones here.

the wt has attatched great doctrinal significance to the words "little flock" in luke 12:32. what however does the context tell us the author was intending?

luke 12 opens with a crowd of curious people gathering and trampling each other and jesus turns to his 12, his friends and disciples, and addresses them with private counsel.

hmike

Thanks to all for the explanations.

At the time Jesus said this, he was clearly not speaking to a large crowd, but to his disciples, which, I believe were more than the 12, though. OK, sure, I can see bringing this forward into today to apply to those who meet the criteria. But to connect them with the 144,000 must have been some kind of "divine revelation," because there is no thread of logic to link them with JW or any other organization, even if these are not literal Jews and 144,000 is not meant to be a literal, exact count.

27

little flock

by peacefulpete in

just a comment for the new ones here.

the wt has attatched great doctrinal significance to the words "little flock" in luke 12:32. what however does the context tell us the author was intending?

luke 12 opens with a crowd of curious people gathering and trampling each other and jesus turns to his 12, his friends and disciples, and addresses them with private counsel.

hmike

Thanks Dutchy,

That's quite a stretch. Where did that interpretation come from? I don't understand how it's justified.

27

little flock

by peacefulpete in

just a comment for the new ones here.

the wt has attatched great doctrinal significance to the words "little flock" in luke 12:32. what however does the context tell us the author was intending?

luke 12 opens with a crowd of curious people gathering and trampling each other and jesus turns to his 12, his friends and disciples, and addresses them with private counsel.

hmike

Are you saying that the WT considers only their members the "little flock?" How do they justify that conclusion?

35

1 John 4:1

by mjl in

went to the meeting this morning and stayed for the talk.

the speaker used a text that i thought was very ironic, 1 john 4:1 which reads " beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they origanate with god, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

" i found this ironic becuase we were trained not to test anything in the publications and never question what we hear from the platform.

hmike

They might advise members to examine what they are told, but wouldn't be in comparison with, as mjl said, their own teaching aids, or their own "revelations," or their own translation? Do they risk turning members loose to investigate something on their own, using "outside" resources?