Posts by hmike

52

Went To A Church Today

by rocketman in

i've been waking up so early on sunday mornings that i finally decided to attend a church today.

it's lutheran, and a work associate invited me some time ago.

taking the risk of being uncovered as an apostate (or at least being under suspicion as one) if i'd have been seen entering or leaving the place, off i went anyway for the 8 am service.

hmike

Rocketman, I think it was actually courageous to step into a Christian church by yourself. Did you feel real strange, out of place, wondering what might happen to you there?

I was raised a Lutheran, and you gave a pretty fair assessment. That's a good place for a first encounter. Realize that other denominations will do things differently--music, sermon guidelines, procedure, etc.

As for what you said about the music, most mainline denominations use hymnals and it may seem a little dry. If you go to an independent, or non-denominational church, most use contemporary music with regular band instruments, and the music is displayed from an overhead projector or is in the worship bulletin. It's more lively, with people clapping to the music or lifting hands. The pastors wear casual clothes. If you have a chance to attend a Calvary Chapel, you'll get an idea. These churches want to appeal to people who have been turned off by "traditional" churches.

Most churches take offerings during the service. Don't feel obligated to give. The pastor of the church I attend even tells visitors not to give, so they won't get the impression that churches just want money. I've even been to a successful church that doesn't set aside a time for offering and the pastor doesn't even mention anything about it--ushers stand at the back with bags in case people want to drop something in on the way out.

More JWs, Mormans, and atheists should take time to explore what a good church can be like. They might be surprised.

I'm just glad you didn't decide to go to a Pentecostal or charismatic word church, where the whole congregation starts speaking in tongues during the service. You may have been scared off permanently.

257

Prove to me that God exists

by CinemaBlend in

i need debate practice on the subject for the next time i'm cornered.

hmike

>>>>Can you prove God doesn't exist?

Immaterial, the absence of proof is not proof itself.

If you cannot disprove the existence of God, you must allow the possibility that He exists.

Ultimately, what you will come up with is not proof--verifiable facts--but rather a level of probability. Everyone comes into the debate with their own set of experiences (with emotions) and type of education that will determine how they evaluate the evidence. What is sufficient evidence to one person will be nonsense to another. It has always been this way. If the existence of God could be proven to everyone, there would be no debate.

Maybe a proper challenge would be: "Convince me that God exists."

48

Is it better to just LEAVE or FIGHT?

by ljwtiamb in

although, i have not been victim to the same level of damage from the wts as many of you on this site, i have noticed that it is very difficult to fight such a large entity with deep pockets and passionate (though misled) supporters.. .

since i am still in the very early stages of leaving/fading, i wonder:.

i have already spent the vast majority of my life sacrificially serving the interests of this org.

hmike

Something that would bother me if I were in your position is that the WT org. knows they are big, powerful, and well-established. They expect people to leave without a fight. So, if someone stays and works and gives and follows orders, that's good for them. And if someone just leaves without making a fuss, that's good for them, too. So, either way, they win.

They expect those who leave to be miserable and empty, and maybe realize it was a mistake to leave. They think they have it figured out. Maybe you can show they were wrong about you.

26

thing restraining

by peacefulpete in

2 thess 2 contains a cryptic reference to a "man of lawlessness" and something or someone that is "restraining".

first to be noted is that the section appears to some to have been styled after typical jewish and early christian apocalyptic scenario wherein an epic and protracted struggle of the messiah (christ) and his archnemesis (antichrist), including the idea that the antichrist figure would have a brief period of success in leading men away then to be crushed in a final decisive battle.

it is suggested from the wording (and dissimilar style) found in 2 thess 2 that the author was drawing from some such pre-existing apocalyse now lost to us.

hmike

Pete, getting back to what you originally proposed, your quotation of the literal translation is:

For the mystery already works of lawlessness, only he restraining him now, until out of midst it comes.

From my interlinear, it comes is the Greek genetai (sorry, I don't know how to do Greek letters here). Your hypothesis seems to depend on what it comes refers back to. Your rendering uses the masculine pronoun to refer to the one doing the restraining, so it doesn't seem to be in agreement with it comes.

257

Prove to me that God exists

by CinemaBlend in

i need debate practice on the subject for the next time i'm cornered.

hmike

Can you prove God doesn't exist?

26

thing restraining

by peacefulpete in

2 thess 2 contains a cryptic reference to a "man of lawlessness" and something or someone that is "restraining".

first to be noted is that the section appears to some to have been styled after typical jewish and early christian apocalyptic scenario wherein an epic and protracted struggle of the messiah (christ) and his archnemesis (antichrist), including the idea that the antichrist figure would have a brief period of success in leading men away then to be crushed in a final decisive battle.

it is suggested from the wording (and dissimilar style) found in 2 thess 2 that the author was drawing from some such pre-existing apocalyse now lost to us.

hmike

Narkissos,

From 2 Thes. 2:5-6, Paul had already explained these things to them in a visit.

My thinking is this: They were afraid that the Day of the Lord had already begun. Paul assures them that it hasn't happened, and cannot happen until the falling away occurs and the man of lawlessness (or man of sin) is revealed. Early in this letter, he commended them for their growing faith and love, so the falling away can't start in that environment. God's Spirit, fully at work in them and through them, is the restraining factor.

Some people have used these scriptures to assert the church will be taken up off the earth before the tribulation. I don't think the text demands that interpretation. It just means the restraining force holding back the man of sin will be relaxed, or no longer be exerted.

8

Has anyone received this Email ** and WHO is STEVE SMITH?

by BrendaCloutier in

have any of you received the same?

fri, 27 may 2005 06:28:16 -0700 (pdt) from:

"steve smith" subject:

hmike

I never open anything that is even the least suspicious. Most infected attachments come with a catchy title or offer.

22

Something I've wondered about for many a year.......

by TadSexington in

o.k..... i've been out of "the truth" for about 10 yrs now.... .

so when i was in i was still a child, and someting just didn't sit right with my child like mind..... whats the deal with not having any women elders....?.

did i miss that watchtower article somwhere....?.

hmike

It's probably based on 1 Tim. 2:12-14--

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. Also, Adam was not deceived and came to be in transgression." (NWT, 1984 ed.)

The writer (Paul?) seems to justify his position based on the Genesis account. Apparently Eve was suckered, whereas Adam knew what he was doing. It's hard to say for sure, but maybe this writer considered women more likely to be gullible than men, and that was a bad trait for leadership (consider 2 Tim. 3:6--"weak women" who relinquish control to deceitful teachers). Whether or not a particular church allows women to have positions of leadership usually comes down to their position on the Genesis account--literal truth or myth--and whether they believe Paul was just making a generalization based on what he saw at that time which is no longer applicable today, or is it an absolute truth of creation to be held to under all circumstances.

26

thing restraining

by peacefulpete in

2 thess 2 contains a cryptic reference to a "man of lawlessness" and something or someone that is "restraining".

first to be noted is that the section appears to some to have been styled after typical jewish and early christian apocalyptic scenario wherein an epic and protracted struggle of the messiah (christ) and his archnemesis (antichrist), including the idea that the antichrist figure would have a brief period of success in leading men away then to be crushed in a final decisive battle.

it is suggested from the wording (and dissimilar style) found in 2 thess 2 that the author was drawing from some such pre-existing apocalyse now lost to us.

hmike

Based on the similiarites between the man of lawlessness and the horn and king of the North mantioned in Daniel, Paul could be considering that the saints (empowered by God's Spirit) are the restraining agents. They don't necessarily need to be removed for this one to take power, only their ability to restrain.

In the context of 2 Thes. 2, Paul wants to assure the Thessalonians that the Day of the Lord had not already come. He could be reminding them that they have a part in the restraint.

26

thing restraining

by peacefulpete in

2 thess 2 contains a cryptic reference to a "man of lawlessness" and something or someone that is "restraining".

first to be noted is that the section appears to some to have been styled after typical jewish and early christian apocalyptic scenario wherein an epic and protracted struggle of the messiah (christ) and his archnemesis (antichrist), including the idea that the antichrist figure would have a brief period of success in leading men away then to be crushed in a final decisive battle.

it is suggested from the wording (and dissimilar style) found in 2 thess 2 that the author was drawing from some such pre-existing apocalyse now lost to us.

hmike

About the dating of the letter: would a mention of the temple in 2:4 imply that it was written before the fall of Jerusalem?