Inspired or not, you cannot help but see the I Enoch in the New Testament (Son of Man, Messiah, Chosen One, Elect One, Gabriel, judgement, etc. etc.).
Posts by hmike
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88Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?
by compound complex ingreetings, friends:.
a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.
the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.
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The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?
by Maddie inwith the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".
i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.
it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.
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hmike
Chalam,
I can't tell if there is any disagreement here or not. As I understand the New Testament, a person receives the Holy Spirit and is born again in response to faith in Jesus as the Christ, Son of God in the flesh (1 John). I do not see that this has to be accompanied by speaking in tongues. The presence of the Holy Spirit can be manifested in many ways, not always so spectacular.
There are problems with making doctrine out of the events in Acts:
-There is no mention of tongues accompanying most conversions mentioned. Maybe it's an argument from silence, but wouldn't it have been important enough to mention if it happened?
-Whenever tongues accompanied conversion, at least one apostle was involved. You would have to say that it would be necessary to have an apostle to lay hands on someone for this to happen which is impossible today since the apostles have been gone for 1900 years.
-In the particular scripture you referred to, Acts 19, the Ephesians only knew of John the Baptist and the baptism of repentance—they didn't even know of Jesus.
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The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?
by Maddie inwith the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".
i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.
it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.
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hmike
seratonin,
Well, I have more than a clue, but, knowing your position, I'll say that this comes from what Ist Corinthians teaches, apparently based on what the practice was at the time, and leave it at that for you. Each can decide for him/herself what to do with it.
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The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?
by Maddie inwith the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".
i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.
it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.
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hmike
Chalam,
I know the scriptures you have quoted. I have no problem with the baptism of the Spirit. I do see a problem with anyone's insistence that this is necessary to indicate salvation. It's recorded to have happened in the book of Acts, but it's not stated that's what always happened then or how it has to happen.
I brought all this up so Maddie (and anyone else wondering) would realize that there is no "standard" interpretation here. There's going to be different positions depending on which church or fellowship one goes. Remember, it's not like JWs where you are told what to believe about everything and there's only their way. It can be quite a challenge to sort through all the differences and make a decision on your own. It's the price of freedom.
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The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?
by Maddie inwith the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".
i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.
it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.
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hmike
So if it's found in many religions, don't they cancel each other out? If Hindus speaking in tongues wouldn't get unbelievers to start believing in Krishna (well I hope no one here would be taken in by that!) then how can Christians doing it be convincing to anyone with the ability to think? Whatever's going on in Hinduism and other beliefs, it's not their god's spirit, is it? Their gods don't exist.
If it's your one true god getting involved with them, how do you know Krishna isn't getting involved when you think Yahweh's spirit is with you?
serotonin,
Tongues is communication from one's spirit to one's god in an audible form. If the spirit has been re-born of Yahweh, then the communication is to Yahweh. If one's spirit is under the influence of another, then the communication is directed elsewhere.
Tongues, in an of itself, doesn't serve as a witness. I Cor. 14:23—
So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
Even on Pentecost when the Spirit came on the disciples (this may be what you're thinking of), many people thought the disciples were babbling from being intoxicated. Some people understood the languages, but only when Peter explained the significance of the event was there repentance, faith, baptism, and the launching of the church.
This is why Paul considered prophecy of more value in the assembly: it is communication from God through man. I Cor. 14:24-25—
But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everyone is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"
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66
The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?
by Maddie inwith the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".
i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.
it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.
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hmike
Chalam,
I agree with you. Those that believe tongues are a sign of salvation are in the minority. They probably derive this belief from the examples in the book of Acts.
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The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?
by Maddie inwith the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".
i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.
it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.
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hmike
HMIKE - It would really be a turn-off for me if I was made to feel less "spiritual" - too much like being a JW and having the feeling of being judged.
Maddie,
Please be aware that there is a wide range of understanding of tongues in the church. On one extreme, there are those who not only do not believe it is meant for today, but that it is even of the devil. On the other extreme are those who insist that speaking in tongues is a necessary indication of salvation. It's sad when this divides the church instead of helping promote Christ's kingdom. That's why some groups simply leave it alone—and miss the blessings.
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66
The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?
by Maddie inwith the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".
i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.
it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.
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hmike
Hi Maddie,
Some churches endorse the charismatic gifts, some do not. I see no scriptural reason these gifts could not be in use today. I have been to church services where these gifts are openly used. Other churches use them in smaller worship groups that meet outside the service, or in Bible study groups. It may seem strange at first, but it's nothing to worry about. The main thing is that you don't let yourself be intimidated or led to feel deprived if you don't participate. Some churches do not sanction it because believers may feel like "second class" Christians if they don't participate.
During a service, it usually it happens as an extension of the worship music—at the end of a song. Relax, and if you feel like joining in, fine..if not, that's fine too. This can also be done as part of one's private worship.
Mike
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Could the widespread belief in God be evidence that he doesn't exist?
by DT infirst of all, i'm an agnostic and don't know if there is a god or not.
however, i do think it possible to intelligently review the evidence and come to some reasonable conclusions, even if we can't have absolute certainty.
it's a big topic, so i'll just discuss the main reason that many people believe in god.
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I went to the doctor today and was told I'm going to hell!!!!!!!!!!
by changeling ini went to my gp today.
i go there quite often since he's also my parent's doctor and i bring them to all their appointments.. i take my dad there at least once a month for blood work since he is on blood thinners, so i'm very familiar with the lady who draws blood.. today i had to have blood drawn myself, and the lady inquired about my parents.
she asked if they had had a nice christmas.
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hmike
changeling,
I've never lived in the Bible belt, but you might be pleased to know that many other regions of the US are not like that. In many public places, management wouldn't dare play Christian music because they would get complaints and lose business. Instead they play music that offends others. It's all about what the most vocal people (not necessarily the majority) demand—management doesn't want trouble.