"How and when did the WTBS determined they were the faithful discreet slave?" I think you can say for certain that Mr Mc Millian had a big part in this teaching. When Brother Russell died they thought that nothing more could be brought forth in relation to further scripture light because that servant was dead. So in 1916 Russell died, but did he not start the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society for the purpose of feeding the Lord's children? What happened was Mc Millian convinced Rutherford that this Society was to REPLACE Russell as "that servant", no longer towards an individual but the Society itself. Who was left after Russell in the feeding of his domestics? The Society organized by him and appointed from the Lord. Truth is the Editorial Committee by Russell in his will acted like a Governing Body until 1932 when Rutherford assumed total control by himself. There was no GB like we know today till much later although there were "helpers" but it was Rutherford who held all the keys who called all the shots. Today, namely after the big shakeup at Brooklyn in the early 80s the president lost this power, Franz was not at all happy with this but being the good JW (Bless his little heart) he went along because he had too. It's almost laughable how the current GB tell the story about their appointement, like a GB was always there back in 1914. Truth is the only spokesperson at that time was Russell. So now they hide these facts and print that Jesus really did found a slave class upon his return in Kingdom power and appointed this slave class over all his belongings. They have in essense did what hitler did, re-written their own history to place themselves in a position of authority of all Jehovah's Witnesses. FDS
Posts by FDS
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22
Have you ever asked an elder...
by homme perdu inhow and when did the wtbs determined they were the faithful discreet slave?
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Have you ever asked an elder...
by homme perdu inhow and when did the wtbs determined they were the faithful discreet slave?
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FDS
" Originaly Russell was the Faithfull and Discreet Slave. Russell himself would not admit it but NEVER said he was not.. After Russell's death the seventh volume of Studies in the Scriptures clearly said Russell was the FDS. Rutherford began to change many of Russell's teachings. As part of Rutherford's take over of the Bible Students in the late teens and the early 20's he claimed the WBTS through its directors were the FDS. " Hello Robert, Actually it went like this. In 1879 Russell did believe that the servant mentioned in Matt: 24:24 was a class, composed of all Jehovah's servants (the whole body). In 1897 or there abouts he changed his mind and started to teach that this servant was now an individual. It's easy to see simply pick up his volume 4 of Millennial Dawn or Studies in the Scriptures page 613 and see for yourself. He also claimed that this servant would be very humble and would be replaced if he failed in his duties. In a 1904 wt, he stated again that the servant was an individual, not a class. As for "claiming" to be the servant, he certainly DID although the organiztion clearly covers up this fact and even Bro Mc Millian lies about this in "Faith on the march". In two places he claimed privately to be "that servant", one in the Studies in the Scriptures volume 1 page 7 of his "Biography" and in the "Finished Mystery" makes mention of Russell in private admitting to being so. It is also clear that he never denied being that servant, he published letters in HIS watchtower praising him as being that servant and even the 1911 Convention report supported starting in that very year by the Society calls Russell the Faithful and wise servant giving to the household meat in due season. FDS
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Am I a bad person to ask Why?
by rockhound inin the light of thinking that i am a person of reason, having a measure of good sense, and not wanting to go against the flow of the main stream, i now look back and wonder "why did it take me 40 years to wake up and smell the roses" about the organization?
when the big fiasco, and i mean big fiasco, of 1975 came and went, didn't i know down deep that i had been chasing "parked cars" spiritually?
with my spiritual nose bleeding i just hung in there with the rest and didn't make a fuss.
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FDS
Itsallgoodnow,
Maybe I was a bit harsh in a few replys but calling someone a "moron" is doing the exact thing you accuse me of dear, if you dsire one to listen openly then please leave the name calling at home, I called no names here.
Ok, looking back over this thread I should have not let MY personal feelings get the best of me in regards to Rock. After all, we do all share a common something don't we? It was not my intentions on my first reply to get into "your resasons are less than others" only that knowing how Witnesses think, this 75 thing is old news, very old news and I got the impression that he just left because of it.
Anyways how I was and am now is not to be found on a WWW web site with a bunch of hidden names. I am not going to fall into the trap of self destruction fighting over this anymore. frankly I wish I could say that I really care about what you think of me personally, it does not matter. I've never been one to not speak my mind EVEN if others do not see it my way. I am man enough to know that I gave a bad impression here but I still hold my ground about personal responsibility for OUR ACTIONS.
Good day
FDS
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Am I a bad person to ask Why?
by rockhound inin the light of thinking that i am a person of reason, having a measure of good sense, and not wanting to go against the flow of the main stream, i now look back and wonder "why did it take me 40 years to wake up and smell the roses" about the organization?
when the big fiasco, and i mean big fiasco, of 1975 came and went, didn't i know down deep that i had been chasing "parked cars" spiritually?
with my spiritual nose bleeding i just hung in there with the rest and didn't make a fuss.
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FDS
I KNOW what the organization has said about 1975, no need to tell me. You all are talking like it is so clear NOW but so unlcear back when you were active? I tend to think that if one was so moved to leave the WT over a date that would see an end to the work then they were working towards that alone, THEY desired the world to end and when it failed they felt like all the work that was done was a waste. Yeah I question motives, you bet ya. Not all witnesses left for "good reasons" yet the mentality is any reason is better than no reason" but that does not MEAN that the Witness is now a good person anymore than he was being in a cult. Am I happy that Rock left? SURE but I find it amazing how most of the Ex JWs a praise each other regardless of their involvement in the Organization, what they have done to promote the Watchtower and when it was personally dissapointing (No end of the present wicked system of things) they then see the "light" that the Watchtower has lead them down a wrong road. Again, not one WITNESS takes any blame for his actions, it's all the bad-cultic-organization's fault, we were blinded by the light, "How were we to know". Take responsibility in your actions but do not preach to me about my responces on a public message board being unkind or unfriendly. Unlike the Kingdom Hall we can talk about our feelings openly, you don't have to like what I say but I will say it regardless.
Rock, I am glad you left, I really am but do others who do not at present share your feelings about leaving, there are 1,019,000, active Jehovah's Witnesses still stuck in the Watchtower who have not let "75" bother them enough to leave. Sure many did who spent their time preaching the end was soon but this falls on deaf ears now. What it seems to me is that it takes a PERSONAL issue of sorts to cause the questioning in the first place. It's just that you are out, it's time you share more than "75", certainly after 40 years you have seen other things that will effect (help) others who might be reading this web site. Remember how you felt and thought of folks like yourself when you were active, it's an easy thing to see lies and falsehoods once you are out but you already know the "Wait on Jehovah" syndrom effecting current memebers. If we are to reach others then we need to meet them as THEY are, not as WE ARE.
Peace
FDS
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Am I a bad person to ask Why?
by rockhound inin the light of thinking that i am a person of reason, having a measure of good sense, and not wanting to go against the flow of the main stream, i now look back and wonder "why did it take me 40 years to wake up and smell the roses" about the organization?
when the big fiasco, and i mean big fiasco, of 1975 came and went, didn't i know down deep that i had been chasing "parked cars" spiritually?
with my spiritual nose bleeding i just hung in there with the rest and didn't make a fuss.
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FDS
"
Sure so did 1925! Please tell me that you never knew about the past failures? You ignored these past dates when it did not affect you personally right? You did not seem to get a hoot when preaching to others about taking in no blood even at the risk of one's child! So again, 1975 is a big deal? God's organization said so? You need to take some blame for your actions, it was you who joined the organization not the other way around.
FDS-How, at that time, did you think anyone was aware of what was hidden by the jws? No internet existed. Not even Crisis of Conscience existed. So how would you expect unsuspecting new converts being love bombed to be aware of any of that? Many were not even alive in 1925 during 1975."
Every person is different but if someone tried to sit down with you and show you these things while you were on fire for the organization would you have listened? As for dates, that is EASY, anyone could have read up on the Watchtower prior to joining. Kingdom of the cults comes to MIND and that has been out long. Specifically one could even gets hints of this in the Watchtower and their books but if one really took the time to check into all this then maybe just maybe they would have not joined but I know a few right now who already are showing the JW mind-set and they are not baptized. Truth is an active JW does not let old light bother him much, there are countless thousands who went through 75 yet "wait upon Jehovah" to clear matters up (they will be waiting a long time). I believe every witness has "heard" of past failures unless you were not one to knock on many doors.... FDS
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Am I a bad person to ask Why?
by rockhound inin the light of thinking that i am a person of reason, having a measure of good sense, and not wanting to go against the flow of the main stream, i now look back and wonder "why did it take me 40 years to wake up and smell the roses" about the organization?
when the big fiasco, and i mean big fiasco, of 1975 came and went, didn't i know down deep that i had been chasing "parked cars" spiritually?
with my spiritual nose bleeding i just hung in there with the rest and didn't make a fuss.
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FDS
Why am I the bad guy? So I pointed out the truth? Certainly Rock did not care for 40 years about decieving others did he? Now it is whos fault is that? I just think folks need to take *some* blame for the choices they make in life. Do you hear anyone saying they are sorry for bringing anyone to the Watchtower? No it's all about them and them only, it's the poor me story all over the net. No one held a gun to your head to stay in the Kingdom hall regardless of what happens when one leaves. I think it silly to say that something so un-personal as a DATE instead of a child being killed in the name of an organization is not "reasonable". Don't think that sounds very "nice"? tough.
What am I doing? I go to Kingdom hall looking for "fallouts" to HELP OUT. It's what I do, I make a valid effort to try to recure those in need but I will not sit here and cry about spilt milk and expect other Ex Jws to boo hoo my life story....
FDS
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Am I a bad person to ask Why?
by rockhound inin the light of thinking that i am a person of reason, having a measure of good sense, and not wanting to go against the flow of the main stream, i now look back and wonder "why did it take me 40 years to wake up and smell the roses" about the organization?
when the big fiasco, and i mean big fiasco, of 1975 came and went, didn't i know down deep that i had been chasing "parked cars" spiritually?
with my spiritual nose bleeding i just hung in there with the rest and didn't make a fuss.
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FDS
Hello Rock,
I hope you did not spend 40 years quoting everyone else while going door to door! Ah that's right you did ;-).
You are saying that those back in the sixties who gave their lives over no organ transplants did not change your thinking like "Stay Alive till 75" did? Why? Were you disappointed? Tell me, do you ever look into the mirror and wonder how many of those you personally lead to the organization have let themselves of their children DIE because the organization said so? Is that personal enough for you?
So sit here on a WWW site and tell the world how many wasted years you had as one of Jehovah's servants, whos fault was that Rock? You might have not had any sharks but perhaps thousands of gupies nipping at your heels to have got some idea that something was wrong.
FDS
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Am I a bad person to ask Why?
by rockhound inin the light of thinking that i am a person of reason, having a measure of good sense, and not wanting to go against the flow of the main stream, i now look back and wonder "why did it take me 40 years to wake up and smell the roses" about the organization?
when the big fiasco, and i mean big fiasco, of 1975 came and went, didn't i know down deep that i had been chasing "parked cars" spiritually?
with my spiritual nose bleeding i just hung in there with the rest and didn't make a fuss.
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FDS
"FDS......(I'd love to know what that stands for!)"
If I told you, I would have to kill you ;-)
"For those of us that lived through "1975" took it VERY seriously. We WERE led to believe that "God's ONLY channel of communication on the earth" had said so, despite the claims to the contrary today."
Sure so did 1925! Please tell me that you never knew about the past failures? You ignored these past dates when it did not affect you personally right? You did not seem to get a hoot when preaching to others about taking in no blood even at the risk of one's child! So again, 1975 is a big deal? God's organization said so? You need to take some blame for your actions, it was you who joined the organization not the other way around.
"Funny.....I thought it was the bible that spoke about false prophets. And no, it doesn't make what any other religion teaches "the truth" in that sense---it just makes the WTS lumped in with all the rest. I just don't recall any of the mainstream religions teaching that the END would come in 1975, or any other dates either. Do you?"
The bible can be anything your little heart desires. Want a Trinity? One God in three persons? Sure. Want a spirit creature? A mode of the great God? No problem. Dates? Let me me candid, ask any Christian how long he thinks until "Jesus" returns. Some have provided DATES even some recently so the Watchtower is not unique here.
You mention the BIBLE, like that mattered when you were a Witness? You did not see any dates while being a Witness did you? Are you saying it took an act of "God" for you to know no dates are in the Bible? The TRINITY is also not in the bible right? I mean you certainly could not come up with "Trinity" unless someone ELSE showed you text that seemed to support such an idea. Are we really to believe that somehow one God exists in three persons? That makes sense? No, you would need an act of something to believe that and I believe it's the same something that caused ones to believe in DATES.
"SOME false statements????? If the WTS really and undeniably WAS getting their "food from God" and dispensing it---WHY did they MAKE so many "mistakes" at any time? EVER?
Either the WTS/FDS/GB wasn't listening very well (or are top-notch deliberate deceivers), or God wasn't correct all those times and in all those faulty doctrines. Which is it?"
What does it MATTER what they claimed? If there is no "God" then their claims amount up to any other claims inlcuding whether one gets their view from the Bible or not. "Jesus is coming back brothers!" Lookie here in the Bible, it is so clear."
I did not say that the Watchtower as a GROUP has not praticed lies. They must for the better of the flock. One does not have to AGREE with it but believe it or not there are some JWs who no matter WHAT will listen to the organization, JUST LIKE YOU DID. Better ask yourself this, "What am I doing to help those I personally mislead into the organization"?
FDS
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Am I a bad person to ask Why?
by rockhound inin the light of thinking that i am a person of reason, having a measure of good sense, and not wanting to go against the flow of the main stream, i now look back and wonder "why did it take me 40 years to wake up and smell the roses" about the organization?
when the big fiasco, and i mean big fiasco, of 1975 came and went, didn't i know down deep that i had been chasing "parked cars" spiritually?
with my spiritual nose bleeding i just hung in there with the rest and didn't make a fuss.
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FDS
[quote]"Why did it take me 40 years to wake up and smell the roses" about the Organization? When the big fiasco, and I mean Big fiasco, of 1975[/quote]
I find it amazing that one who spent fourty years going door to door let something so trivial as the 1975 thing break your faith. Let's be honest for a moment, certainly you must of had issues prior to the 1975 failure? Could it really have just been a nail in the coffin so to speak? I question this because the 1975 thing was not that big a deal, well anymore than 1925, 1918, 1916 and 1914 had been. I'm sure you knew about those dates too during 40 years of service? Yes the Society played a part (a BIG ONE) in 75 but what is the big deal about it? They said PERHAPS-MIGHT-MAYBE but NEVER said for "certain" that it would see an end to the work. They published silly things about others selling thier homes and the like. I guess this falls into the mind set that "prophets" really DO exist? I mention this because it's Christendom who promote this idea of a "false prophet" like it makes what they teach "the truth".
A cult. This too is very subjective and depends on who is making the claim. Many Fundemental Christians can be labeled as a "cult" and in fact many who claim to have the "truth" do this very thing. You don't believe in the body of Jesus raising from the dead? You're a "cult" No Trinity? Cult. Cult becomes a free for all based on IF one disagrees with the speaker's beliefs. Many religions claim to be the truth, many ex JWs now claim to have found the "truth" in another reiglion based upon the Watchtower and it's mistakes. Again, just because the organization has made some false statements does not make another religion's teachings right.
FDS
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What's the Watchtower's definition of an "Apostate"?
by JH inif a person doesn't go to meetings nor in the field service, he's considered "inactive".
an inactive person is not an apostate.
if an inactive person joins a forum like this one, he is automatically considered an apostate by the watchtower org.
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FDS
One who is "inactive" - meaning one who is not looking into apostate material whatsoever, perhaps one has doubts about his own self worth, maybe a family member has died or you are stressed and feel you need time to gather yourself. You will still be shunned but not by the elders. There are many like this, who still believe that the organization is Jehovahs' and what they teach is "truth". Once you start questioning the organization then you certainly are on a dangerous road and most likely will be dissfellowshipped. Any active good standing publisher who comes here would also be in great danger, only an elder could get away with it. A independant JW trying to preach here is foolish nonesense, let him tell the brothers in his congregation and see what happens!
FDS