Posts by FDS

39

Study conductor claims the "WTS is not the FDS"...and other JW affirmations

by M.J. in

i am currently following the ongoing saga of a person who is studying to be a jw and her unbelieving husband's attempts to sway her in this endeavor.

he has gotten her to read cofc and she's halfway through it, but nonetheless, she remains bound to the jws and wants to continue her persuit.

he has tried to call into question that the wts could have been appointed by jesus as the "faithful, discreet slave", but the person she is studying with flat out told her that jws do not believe that jesus chose the wts as the fds and, that they don't believe that they are the one chosen religion/church.

FDS

Jehovah's Witnesses lie so much that they don't know what is truth anymore. As a witness, I would claim that Christ died for me all the while knowing that I believed that Christ only died for the annointed as the WT teaches. I believed as did most of us here that I would "gain" salvation if I followed the WT. Christ never even entered the picture as I "worked out" my salvation. So, witnesses have this cognitive dissonance that allows them to hold two diametrically opposed ideas at the same time and somehow claim that both are right. It is deceptive, not logical and I believe a lie. I used to cover this fact so that my message would be more acceptable to normal people. If witnesses were proud of the object of their faith, they should just come right out in the open and say Christ has given all of his authority to the WT leadership and to the anomynous ghost writers of the WT and then explain why they believe this. This of course would lead to an honest examination of WT history which is fraught with non-sense.

One, we already KNOW that the Watchtower bible and tract Society lies and covers-up it's history.

Two, as an ex-JW, you all of people should know that some worldly "apostate" christians are not even listened too. What is your goal in talking to Jws? If it is only to beat them down with your Jesus sword then you will get no where.

Three, your issue is a problem in communication . Personally I could care less if you want to "preach" your Jesus to JWs, but do not be mislead into thinking that a Witness will listen to you unless you approach the matter in a FRIENDLY and informed manner. Do you recall some people when you went door to door and insulted you - told you that you were in a CULT? How did you react AT THAT TIME? Meet a WITNESS as they are, not as you are and you might actually get somewhere.

And most importantly, you seem to be calling the everyday JW a liar when in reality it is the GOVERNING BODY through the Watchtower publications that teach lies. Most JWs have no idea that they are spreading lies so attack the SOURCE and NOT the person.

FDS

31

What's in your library?

by the_classicist in

whats in your personal bible or religious library?

let's see what i have... cambridge kjv (really nice, calfskin leather), cambridge reb (really nice, not as good as kjv though), 50 year old douay rheims (with annoying jw notes and written-in textual changes inside, courtesy jw great-grandmother), rsv-ce (imitation leather, looks extremely cheap), nab (imitation leather, looks better but sucky confraternity notes in it).

that's my bible collection (i got rid of the nwt).

FDS

Hum let's see. SOME of my stuff..

The Bible Vs the Evolution Theory 1898

Millenial Dawn paper back Vol III Special WT edition, 1893

Millenial Dawn Vol I, 1904

The Divine Plan of the Ages, Biography edition 1925, 1926 (2 copies)

The Divine Plan of the Ages as Shown in the Great Pyramid 1915 (Pyramid on cover)

Studies Vol III "Boxed edition"

Studies in the Scriptures - Vol 1, 2, 3, 4 Each in Lamp and Winged Globe editions

Studies 4 Karatol 1912

The Finished Mystery, special WT edition "ZG" 1918

Miracle in Stone (SEISS)

NWT Special student's edition 1963

Countless 1920s Watch Towers

Creation, Riches, Harp 1925, 1928, Enimies, Deliverance, Salvation,New World, Qualified to be Ministers 55, Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, Make sure of all things (both editions) all new books from 50s-2005, Countless tracts, KM, Informants, Convention programs and many others...

FDS

39

Study conductor claims the "WTS is not the FDS"...and other JW affirmations

by M.J. in

i am currently following the ongoing saga of a person who is studying to be a jw and her unbelieving husband's attempts to sway her in this endeavor.

he has gotten her to read cofc and she's halfway through it, but nonetheless, she remains bound to the jws and wants to continue her persuit.

he has tried to call into question that the wts could have been appointed by jesus as the "faithful, discreet slave", but the person she is studying with flat out told her that jws do not believe that jesus chose the wts as the fds and, that they don't believe that they are the one chosen religion/church.

FDS

" I was approached by a Jehovah's Witness (elder or pioneer?) who was boldly witnessing at a gas station in California last fall. He pitched the standard WT line and I asked him if I could ask him a question. He said delightedly, "Sure".

I asked him why Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus only died for the 144,000? He said we don't believe that! I replied, "But you do believe that the Society teaches that Christ only mediated the new covenant with annointed Jehovah's Witnesses through the spilling of his blood right? He replied, "No he died for everyone". I told him I was a 4th gerneration Jehovah's Witness, and an ex regular pioneer. I then asked him how he could sllep at night knowing that he was lying to all the good people in his community. he screamed, "I'm not lying!" I told him calmly that I knew that he was lying and that he also knew that he was. He replied as he quickly walked away, "Oh, so you already know everything" I stood there transfixed as I watched this poor soul walk away in defeat and in psychological trauma. I think I felt truly sorry for Jehovah's Witnesses for the fist time then. He looked so pitiful and naked. Later I wished that I had thought to tell he that if he knew Christ that he would not need to lie any more.

I have had many conversations with JW's, and I can assure you that they indeed tell copious lies. As a pioneer, I was conducting 8 bible studies per month at one time. I can assure everyone here that I told the same lies to cover the WT rear end on a variety of subjects. I'm sure that many of the members of this board who were good evangilizers can attest to their own deceptions while they were members. I know that I flat out lied to people. I thought I was doing the right thing at the time." Forgive me but that is a classic example on how NOT to talk to an Active JW. "I stood there transfixed as I watched this poor soul walk away in defeat and in psychological trauma. I think I felt truly sorry for Jehovah's Witnesses for the fist time then. He looked so pitiful and naked. Later I wished that I had thought to tell he that if he knew Christ that he would not need to lie any more. " If anything it looks like you proved nothing at all. How could caalling one's religion a LIE be helpful? Its not even a question as to whether the WT lies but how you go about letting the WITNESS see this for himself in a non agressive manner, not boastful and cocky like you have some spiritual sword (I really think Christians in many ways reflect cultic mind sets - simply read any Creation Science wacko site) A witness needs OUT of the Watchtower IF he sees things that he cannot agree with but to tell anyone that just because the Watchtower is not "truth" CERTAINLY does not mean there is even such a thing as "truth" in a religious manner. FDS

9

Jehovah's Kingdom growth report for 2004

by FDS in

sitting in the hall the past week i noticed the annual report and being the avid reader i looked at the report for the usa which i found most interesting.

1,019,696 faithful ministers of jehovah's kingdom spent 189,740,398 hours witnessing, conducted 519,648 bible studies with 0% growth!

how much increase does one need to even have a .1% growth?

FDS

"The problem with those reports is that they are only looked at from a single angle. Having a 0% growth, logically, means that the amount of people who got baptized equal the amount of people who officially left the WBTS"

Interesting indeed. That certainly amounts to a "large" number. So why are so many leaving lately? United Nations? Logically I don't believe a die hard JW would let this bother him in the slightest. I have shown some brothers some things clear as glass yet they only saw what they wanted to see, or better what was in line with the organization....Hopefully more will start to ask WHY....

FDS

9

Jehovah's Kingdom growth report for 2004

by FDS in

sitting in the hall the past week i noticed the annual report and being the avid reader i looked at the report for the usa which i found most interesting.

1,019,696 faithful ministers of jehovah's kingdom spent 189,740,398 hours witnessing, conducted 519,648 bible studies with 0% growth!

how much increase does one need to even have a .1% growth?

FDS

LOL yeah perhaps. I wonder if this takes into consideration those who had to be ...ummmm loved out (DF). What do we need for a .1% of 1,000,000? Sounds about the amount that would be DF eh?

FDS

22

Have you ever asked an elder...

by homme perdu in

how and when did the wtbs determined they were the faithful discreet slave?

FDS

"All you witnesses had better stop thinking of bible verses as being stand alone proofs. You must understand context. Who was speaking? Who was being spoken to? Why? Just because someguys up in brooklyn call themselves the FDS dont make it so."

I think us "thinking bros" know that the organization only CLAIMS to be the Faithful Slave, not that they are REALLY the "Slave".

But that does bring other interesting questions to mind, who says that this is even talking about what everyone has claimed? We know here by context that Jesus refers to his followers as a "whole". Funny Russell said that he did not see two classes of people in God's kingdom yet the Watchtower certainly has a "clergy and laity" class today, the clergy being the 144,000 and other sheep of earth bound wanna bees (Laity).......Yikes

FDS

9

Jehovah's Kingdom growth report for 2004

by FDS in

sitting in the hall the past week i noticed the annual report and being the avid reader i looked at the report for the usa which i found most interesting.

1,019,696 faithful ministers of jehovah's kingdom spent 189,740,398 hours witnessing, conducted 519,648 bible studies with 0% growth!

how much increase does one need to even have a .1% growth?

FDS

Sitting in the hall the past week I noticed the annual report and being the avid reader I looked at the report for the USA which I found most interesting.

1,019,696 faithful ministers of Jehovah's kingdom spent 189,740,398 hours witnessing, conducted 519,648 bible studies with 0% growth! How much increase does one need to even have a .1% growth? Certainly sitting there listening to Mr Overseer tell us how "short the time is remaining" we would see some increase? In fact most english speaking nations report the same growth. So you publishes, put down the nintendo and get going door to door! How many sheeplike ones have you forsaken for a good movie? Time is so short the Bros in Brooklyn tell us. Are you really working hard enough for mother? Will your current preaching activity measure up to Jehovah's New World standard?

FDS

22

Have you ever asked an elder...

by homme perdu in

how and when did the wtbs determined they were the faithful discreet slave?

FDS

Or one more from a book we all know and loved

"You can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" page 193

"...On his return in Kingdom power in the year 1914, did Christ find a "faithful and discreet slave" class providing spiritual "food," or information? Yes, he found such a "slave" made up of the remaining ones on earth of his 144,000 brothers. (Rev 12:10; 14:1, 3) And since 1914 millions of persons have accepted the "food" they provide, and have begun practicing true religion along with them. This organization of God?s servants is known as Jehovah?s Witnesses..."

FDS

22

Have you ever asked an elder...

by homme perdu in

how and when did the wtbs determined they were the faithful discreet slave?

FDS

Dos,

"

Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life book

Chap: 17

THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE

3 Relief supplies are generally dispensed through an organized channel, and Jehovah has similarly made spiritual provision for his people. For example, the Israelites were "Jehovah?s congregation" for some 1,500 years. Among them were those who served as God?s channel to teach his law. (1 Chronicles 28:8; 2 Chronicles 17:7-9) In the first century C. E., Jehovah brought forth the Christian organization. Congregations were formed, and they functioned under the direction of a governing body made up of apostles and older men. (Acts 15:22-31) likewise today, Jehovah deals with his people through an organized body. How do we know this?

4 Jesus said that at the time of his presence in Kingdom power, "the faithful and discreet slave" would be found providing "food at the proper time" for His followers. (Matthew 24:45-47) When Jesus was installed as heavenly King in 1914, who did this "slave" prove to be? Certainly not the clergy of Christendom. For the most part, they were feeding their flocks propaganda that backed up their own national governments in World War I. But proper and timely spiritual food was being dispensed by the group of true Christians who were anointed by God?s holy spirit and were a part of what Jesus called the "little flock." (Luke 12:32) These anointed Christians preached God?s kingdom rather than man?s governments. As a result, over the years millions of righteously disposed "other sheep" have joined the anointed "slave" in practicing true religion. (John:10:16) Using the "faithful slave" and it?s present-day Governing Body, God directs his organized people to make spiritual food, clothing, and shelter available to all who wish to have these provisions.

Dos, is this clear enough for you? If not I have many other quotes that "prove" beyond all doubt that they do...

FDS

39

Study conductor claims the "WTS is not the FDS"...and other JW affirmations

by M.J. in

i am currently following the ongoing saga of a person who is studying to be a jw and her unbelieving husband's attempts to sway her in this endeavor.

he has gotten her to read cofc and she's halfway through it, but nonetheless, she remains bound to the jws and wants to continue her persuit.

he has tried to call into question that the wts could have been appointed by jesus as the "faithful, discreet slave", but the person she is studying with flat out told her that jws do not believe that jesus chose the wts as the fds and, that they don't believe that they are the one chosen religion/church.

FDS

The publisher conducting the book study is perhaps ignorant OR is indeed speaking sideways. I find this interesting because the Watchotwer certainly would not change this teaching. How else would anyone believe them as Jehovah's channel? The proof is in the writings. The standard is always the newest teaching "aid" which happens to be the "Knowledge that leads to Everlasting Life" which on page 160 paragraph 3 CLEARLY states that this slave IS the Watchtower Society and that Jehovah God has always used a organized channel to dispense spiritual food. So bring out the book and have him read it. Ask him IF he has another official QUOTE from the Society's publications concerning his "strange" stance and new teaching. He will most likely run ;D

FDS