The poem is anonymous, and has been around from at least 1999 on the Net. Another example of urban legend information given from the platform as Truth. The use of it is typical of manipulative behavior of those in "power" positions. If all of the rumors are true regarding the elimination and/or changes in CO representation, then this type of activity will increase - not diminish - and the R&F will have more to worry about, more confusion, and less control over what is promolgated from the platform. Sad....
Posts by opr83
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16This stupid poem was recited recently by a CO to manipulate the young'n's
by JimmyPage inpizza, a party and a moonlight ride .
author unknown .
jenny was so happy about the house they had found.. for once in her life it was the right side of town.
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Kingdom Interlinear
by CHILD indoes anyone have a link to 1969 kingdom interlinear?
if so, please pm.
i have some research to do..
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opr83
Try this link www.thedcl.org/bible/diaglott-nt/index.html. This is the Emphatic Diaglott, which is where the Interlinear translation comes from.
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27
Will the change to the Watchtower be followed by a change to the meetings?
by yaddayadda ini expect that a significant change to the meetings is on the horizon, most probably in the form of a shift of the bookstudy from a weeknight to a condensed saturday morning version.
some congregations already hold bookstudy groups on saturday mornings.
a universal change to this for the whole organisation make senses as it would help resolve a number of growing problems for the society, specifically, meeting attendance is clearly diminishing at the rate of knots in the western world, many elders are burning out and resigning because they cannot cope with all the pressure heaped up on them that so many meetings in no small measure contributes towards, and magazine 'sales' are apparently down and such a change would work in very well with the upcoming new change to the watchtower magazine in january 2008. .
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opr83
Someone on this thread mentioned "only the pioneers" will report FS in the future. I've ranted about reporting "time" for several years. There is no scriptural justification for reporting FS. Yes, there are "business" reasons for it, but I know of no other reasons. We use the FSR as some sort of measurement, no matter how you look at it, and it is wrong. If they really want a count, let them count each meeting for FS and report how many went out each week.
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Did You Ever REALLY Love "Jehovah God"?
by minimus inlooking back, honestly, do you think you ever really loved jehovah??
?
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opr83
W.Once,
Best post on this thread, W.Once. "love", "God", and how those words interact for humankind throughout the centuries... And how we as humans have distorted the meaning. It would be nice to know at some point, booby prize not withstanding...
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356
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 ini'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).
and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.
people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!
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opr83
Auldsoul,
As strange as this comment may seem, I wish we would have served together. That, I suppose, comes from the feeling that we still can do some good for ones in pain, for ones crying out to understand, for ones only wanting to be like Jesus - not in a boastful, proud position, but in a way that gives love and expects nothing else in return.
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Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 ini'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).
and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.
people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!
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opr83
Auldsoul,
No, not defending. And, you are absolutely correct, the authority from that body is only in the minds of those that believe them to be that mouthpiece. I may not have been as clear in the previous as I thought. Or, perhaps my desire to BE identified as a JW is too strong to speak clearly. I have great difficulty in thinking/believing that there is a group in NY that is the only path to God, and that they must be followed as most JW's need to believe.
However, the proof you seek will never be forth-coming to you, or to others that seek it. Although the WTS would tell you there is no such thing as "blind faith", there does come a point where there is no proof that can be offered for a belief in a path, or a group. Thirdwitness (I believe) tried to make an argument about 607 BCE, yet the basis of the argument was that (and I apologize for the generalization) "only the scriptural outcomes and how the WTS framed the date(s) can be used to prove 607 is the right date, no matter what historians and archeologists tell us". He was really saying, "it is a matter of faith and belief in how it has been explained by the WTS." That's a pretty big leap.
I wish I could tell you how your dad stays so strong in his thinking. I wish I could share with you my turmoil more clearly. It is not that I support or defend. It is a matter of ambiguitousness that puzzles me so.
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Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 ini'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).
and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.
people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!
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opr83
auldsoul,
You asked some specific questions of me, and I have been reading so much of this thread that I have not had time to reply. I'd like to ask those reading this thread, however, to reflect on something that haunts me as I wander through this maze of ideas. We tend to think (as JW's) that there is clear, concrete beliefs, laws, orders, principles, that we should adhere to, that we are directed to follow, and that direction comes from a body that we accept as "God's mouthpiece". There is no way around it, our belief has to be centered around the premis that the WTS is "God's chosen avenue of enlightenement." As my wife would say "sounds alot like Catholisism to me!"
The alternative, as many would espouse (and I believe you implied, Auldsoul) is that the Organization known now as Jehovah's Witnesses is false, because error is found. But is that the only alternative?
Is the bible so clear that we can say what is false and what is true given what we see in the world today? Do we really have the knowledge, the insight from God, to know how to gather ourselves together as believers in Christ? Is it important to have that "rigidity" that the FDS would have us follow? Or, as some of us believe, "principle" is just that, a loose connection with laws and orders hinted at in scripture, but not clearly defined.
To be sure, there are black and white answers to issues found in scripture. But, there are many others that are not as clear, and CLEARLY over the years have been distorted by the FDS, GB, Writing committee, etc, etc. Go back in the older writings from the WTS, and you will find an EMENSE gap in what we believe today versus what was believed in the first 75 years of the 20th century.
How do those sincere ones (and there are many on this board) reconcile all of those issues? Or, should we just say "it is a good book, and I'll follow what I want, and be kind to others but not questions their beliefs?" Should we attempt to guide others at all? If not, what's the meaning of "go therefore and make desciples, teaching them...."? Where do I personally go with that? I cannot be presumpteous enough to believe that I have all the right answers (even though those that know me think that I believe that, right Peg?)
It is a very, very confusing and complicated issue, this "religion" thing. God had the scriptures written for a purpose. Perhaps we are, as a world society, still trying to figure out what that purpose is, and He has hopes that we'll get it right before we destroy ourselves.
(BTW, Auldsoul. I took no offense to your asking. I've found your posts stimulating, as well as several others on this thread. Im glad someone alerted me to take a look. )
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NAME`JEHOVAH' FIRST USED BY CATHOLIC!
by badboy ini believe i read somewhere that jehovah was first used by the catholic!
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opr83
My wife is an ex-catholic, and she assures me that she was taught in Grade School that the name of God was Jehovah. This was taught to her in a chatholic school by a nun. Unfortunately, she states that no one used that name in the "church" after her fourth grade!
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Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 ini'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).
and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.
people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!
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opr83
I too am forced to comment on this thread. Thanks S4 for starting this discussion. I wish I had the time to expound on the many, many fine points made here by all. I'm an ex-elder, stepping away some years ago. Still "active" in the congregation. I do have the mindset that has been described here by many - that Jehovah will correct matters in time, that it will be a "massive" correction, and that the scriptural applications of how corruption infiltrated the Israelites for years is appropriate in this time that we are living.
We do long for it to be corrected. Some long for it to be exposed as false. And, in fact, when the correction comes, it will be a tremendous blow to those that have been loyal for so long. I agree with you, S4, on the primary reasons why ones finally step away from the Org. Personal atrocities committed on them, or some overwhelming issue that they cannot abide by any longer.
I often wonder if I harmed anyone because of what I said, did, or did not do as an elder, or even as a fellow member in the congregation. It wears upon the consciense, and is not easily dismissed or written off as if "I was just following orders". Those that are still elders that read this post, how is it that you handle ones seeking guidence? There is much that we would like to tell them, to give them comfort and scriptural advice that is ---- different ------ than what may be offered by elders that do not think for themselves.
At times I've wanted to gather a group of elders together and debate many of the things that you find here at this board. But, sadly that would be a significant waste of time on the majority of those ones. Ps 115 talks about idols or false gods (lest I be accused of taking a scripture out of context) but it apply describes ones that refuse, beyond all logical reasoning, not to see where things have gone awry.
It doesn't anger me, it saddens me. And, it frightens me as well.
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Requirement for JWs to report sins of others to the elders--need source
by cabasilas ini'm looking for some pointed references that detail the requirement for jws to report the sins ("disfellowshipping offenses") of fellow members to the elders.
i have the "a time to speak--when?
" article from 1987 but was looking for more concise and direct statements in wt literature.
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opr83
Check out the 87 wt 9/1 page 13 for a good section on this topic.